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  1. #21
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    I'm always amazed at how different and similar my 3 kids are from their parents and each other.

    My 2 year old just gets it if it's mechanical. He can air up his bike tires and knows which wrenches and screwdrivers fit which fasteners and where to get them in the toolboxes. He knows which levers do what on both forklifts and knows Cat excavator controls. He watches very intently when something new is happening and he's pretty much got it. Doesn't hardly talk, but comprehends a lot. Deep level of common sense and respect for mechanical stuff.

    My 9 and 13 year olds don't care to watch and learn anything and get upset if I try explaining things. I have to bribe them to spend any time in the shop. Very artistic though. My 9 y/o taught herself how to play piano 3 years ago and she can play a song on piano after hearing it a couple times. She can also talk for 30 minutes straight without saying a damn thing of importance. My 13 y/o is very sensitive and doesn't seem to "get" much about how the physical world works. He's real smart, imaginative and thoughtful, but he will probably get a fancy degree in something like psychology or journalism and pay someone else to change his oil.

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  3. #22
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    When I was in the foreign car repair business, an old timer would sometimes come around and help out. One day he was putting the head on an MGA engine, using a 3/8 ratchet.

    "What are you torquing them to, Ben?"

    "50 foot pounds."

    "Right"

    "Go get your torque wrench."

    I did and they all torqued at 48-49.

    Now the punch line- he had the wrench handle at 90 degrees to him, holding the wrench handle right at the end, pulling at right angle to the handle, feet braced so he was well balanced. Of course 50+ years of midget and motorcycle racing, mechanicing in between, probably didn't hurt.

    To celebrate his 74th birthday he rode his 1930 Indian to Teotihuacan and climbed the Pyramid of the Sun.

    Bill

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
    Yup, and some people pick it up faster than others...
    Yes and an unfortunate few never pick it up no matter how hard they try.

    Regards Tyrone.

  6. #24
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    You don't use the grunt index?

    no grunt - finger tight
    1/2 grunt - choke up on the wrench
    1 grunt - end of the wrench
    2 grunts - end of the wrench both hands
    2 grunts + 1 groan - both feet and two hands or cheater bar.



    Best Regards,
    Bob

  7. #25
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    My son, the youngest at 23, I've tried to teach him some of what I know, still hasn't got brave enough to turn on a lathe! He works on all of our cars when something needs fixing, does full brake jobs, and such. Really very proud of him and what he does today. Back when he was 16 or 17, don't remember that far back, he went to replace the water pump on my wife's 2005 Toyota Corolla she drove back then. Well needless to say, with all of the instructions I gave him he managed to cross thread a M6 bolt into the block and broke it off! I didn't holler at him, like my dad would have done at me!
    Needless to say, by the time I got that broken bolt drilled out, and of course, the drill was not exactly in the center of the old bolt not even close. It wound up with a 3/8-24 thread in the hole, with a special turned down head on the bolt, and carefully gently torqued down just enough to hold it in place, with a little blue Loctite.
    My ex-son in a law is still driving that car and so far that water pump is still holding up. Made a home made drill jig out of the old water pump mounting bracket to locate the new hole with and guide the tap into the hole squarely for the new bolt. Feel sorry for the next poor sole that has to replace that water pump!

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  9. #26
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    We did not have much for cars, so built them

    1954 makes me 14 and Harry 11

    model-t.jpg

    Then by '58 they actually had engines (yes, I know the flat head block designation is incorrect)

    model-.jpg

    But before all that, we did like others and made models

    john-harry.jpg
    The "whizzer" probably was running before the flat head. Note no bike pedals makes it a factory gee whiz version

    whizzinbike.jpg

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs44032 View Post
    You don't use the grunt index?

    no grunt - finger tight
    1/2 grunt - choke up on the wrench
    1 grunt - end of the wrench
    2 grunts - end of the wrench both hands
    2 grunts + 1 groan - both feet and two hands or cheater bar.



    Best Regards,
    Bob
    I work in Aerospace, Medical device manufacturing. "Grunts" are a sign of something wrong.

    R

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I work in Aerospace, Medical device manufacturing. "Grunts" are a sign of something wrong.

    R
    Around here I'm more worried about not hearing grunts. It means they found a cheater pipe big enough to make it easy on them.

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  14. #29
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    Best method to learn on an old, "pos" car- if the fastener is smaller than your smallest fingernail, pull on the wrench with two fingers 'till it quits moving, then go 1/8 turn. If it's bigger than that, do the same and go 1/4 turn.
    If it gets loose again, go futher next time...
    Hell, I STILL use this method!

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    The greatest question; is common sense teachable?

  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    The greatest question; is common sense teachable?
    Given that for most people, "common sense" really means "your opinion and my opinion are the same" I'd say no. Since it's your son you had a chance but if he's 17 already it's a little late for easy brainwashing

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    I dunno. To me, common sense means someone can figure out the things that are or should be common knowledge without being hand held through them. Who defines what is or should be common knowledge and how is a different story altogether.

    And no, common sense then by my own personal definition doesn't strike me as teachable.

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  19. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    I dunno. To me, common sense means someone can figure out the things that are or should be common knowledge without being hand held through them. Who defines what is or should be common knowledge and how is a different story altogether.

    And no, common sense then by my own personal definition doesn't strike me as teachable.
    A fellow I met in high school plagued me for a decade. He was unable to do linear logic, if A is true and B is true, then C is true. He operated by a set of platitudes and if the one in use was correct, he did fairly well, but he had no ability to tell the difference. One I remember was "That plane's engine will not run inverted because it doesn't have a pressurized fuel tank." That means nothing at all. I think he heard of pressure carburetors, the kind used on chain saws and aerobatic airplanes and altered it to pressurized tanks. He was incapable of repairing anything because he could not follow the function and see where it went wrong.

    When I was a senior in high school, I ran a radio class after school and a number of kids got amateur radio licenses. When I graduated, they gave me a presentation model Vibroplex key with my call letters engraved in its base. The paddle and knobs are red plastic. On day our hero tried to get it off a shelf and dropped it, breaking the paddle. I got a replacement but the shade is not an exact match. I get mad all over again every time I look at it. He didn't pay for the paddle, either.

    Bill

  20. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    I dunno. To me, common sense means someone can figure out the things that are or should be common knowledge without being hand held through them. Who defines what is or should be common knowledge and how is a different story altogether.

    And no, common sense then by my own personal definition doesn't strike me as teachable.
    I don't disagree with you, but I see too many people use it like I defined. I try to avoid using words like "common sense" and "obviously" for that very reason. Things that are obvious or simple to you or me or someone else might be very much not simple or obvious to another person. I learned my lesson a while back not to use the word "obvious" unless you intend to or are willing to insult the person(s) on the receiving end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    So my 17 year old has a leak at the oil pan in his NEW/POS car. It's perfect automobile for him, it runs, but is falling apart too. To the point; how do you teach a young person how tight, to tighten bolts? I can feel a bolt at 4 different stages.

    1. Loose
    2. Snug
    3. All interference used.
    4. Yield before failure.

    I'm yelling at the poor sensitive kid. "Can't you feel the difference?". He's like "no Dad, I can't".

    So how do you teach someone? Without 10,000 hours of experience.

    R
    Not by yelling.

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    How did you learn it?
    This is not common sense or a lack of caring.
    Of course he can't feel it, It is a hard learned skill.
    Most times Dad would just shake his head and say "What did you just do?, That was wrong, Now your are going to have to fix it."
    Other times he would throw parts or wrenches across the building and on occasion break a window doing it.
    Then I would get to think, "Yea, that's not the best idea either"...
    Bob

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  24. #37
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    Bob...nobody's perfect. It sounds like your dad tried though. I do the same as I'm sure most (I won't say all) fathers do. Sometimes you blow it. As long as Dad doesn't go overboard and is man enough to apologize later when he blows it, it's all good.

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  26. #38
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    Some people are born with an innate grasp of things, most are not and it's an acquired skill learned from mistakes. Everything has it's own set of dynamics that don't often transfer from one thing to the next. Some people pick up on those dynamics after a few mistakes, others take longer to learn "why". To answer your question I think "common sense" can be taught but mistakes have to be made as part and parcel of the learning process. It's especially painful when it's your son that's trying to earn the respect of his very capable father.

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    screw the torque wrench training. (i've seen that ridiculous movie several times)

    it's called brain connected to hands - and a little on the job experience

  28. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AD Design View Post
    Some people are born with an innate grasp of things, most are not and it's an acquired skill learned from mistakes. Everything has it's own set of dynamics that don't often transfer from one thing to the next. Some people pick up on those dynamics after a few mistakes, others take longer to learn "why". To answer your question I think "common sense" can be taught but mistakes have to be made as part and parcel of the learning process. It's especially painful when it's your son that's trying to earn the respect of his very capable father.
    pretty frustrating every time you hire an employee that, after telling him the correct way, he has to learn by mistakes on the boss's dollar

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