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  1. #41
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    i don't believe i could work where clocking in 8 minutes early or one minute late could get your ass in a sling

  2. #42
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    I'll bet if you run the numbers, you've got a 'bank' of time from early punch-ins that would average out the later punch-ins. Maybe have a lawyer bring the case and make them go back and submit all your stuff under discovery. That and make 'em cough up your jacket, just for spite. If they gave everyone else one, and not you, sue 'em for age discrimination.

    Chip

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  4. #43
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    no, screw them.
    find a niche,and start your own biz,on your own terms.

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  6. #44
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    Sorry to hear the bad news. FWIW my suspicion is your good work was "making us look bad" for some others and they ganged up on you.

    Both incidents don't sound like a pattern, more like a couple of "oops" that should have bee addressed by a supervisor before being referred to HR.

    You don't mention whether or not they paid severance, unused personal time, etc. but I would advise you to check your state's laws regarding same. They may have fudged things a bit and if they are in the hole financially they may be trying to cheat you of what is legally owed.

    Start a written log immediately while things are fresh in your mind and record all relevant dates, times, actions, and people spoken to before and during your termination. The fact that you had to have police protect your right to retrieve personal property is very important, as they may have been trying to acquire your tools.

    If there is a state labor relations board I would give them a call after you have written down all relevant info so you will have it on hand.

  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    It was good but it was going down fast, 2 unionizing attempts in a year, most hourly employees hate it there. I was one of the few that still liked it. Bonus and raises were pretty much non-existent.
    That might be a clue. If they noticed you being popular with other workers they may have mistakenly tagged you as a union organizer and looked for excuses to terminate.

    I think in the long run they did you a favor. Sounds like a bad environment rapidly getting worse.

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  9. #46
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    As more info comes from the OP, I'm thinking:
    1. toolmaker running production, too costly an employee to
    be doing that, let's get another monkey button pusher.
    2. Lot's of OT, making you the highest paid guy on the floor,
    again, let's cut the most cost with the least reduction in headcount.

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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That might be a clue. If they noticed you being popular with other workers they may have mistakenly tagged you as a union organizer and looked for excuses to terminate.

    I think in the long run they did you a favor. Sounds like a bad environment rapidly getting worse.
    I was one of the first guys they went to and asked to try to talk people out of it. I'm anti union and they knew it. Whenever something happened there and they knew I could find out about it I would confirm or discount the situation. I never gave names of anyone involved, even when they asked and sometimes pressed. They didn't like that, I know. But hey it's your job to figure it out not mine.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    As more info comes from the OP, I'm thinking:
    1. toolmaker running production, too costly an employee to
    be doing that, let's get another monkey button pusher.
    2. Lot's of OT, making you the highest paid guy on the floor,
    again, let's cut the most cost with the least reduction in headcount.
    In addition to if he has a high profile like he was saying, it is a great way to put the fear of God into the whole work force.

    The HR lady being new also smells of house cleaning time.

    The OP needs to consider himself lucky. Better to be the first one off the sinking ship then to be caught trying to find a life boat at the end.

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  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    As more info comes from the OP, I'm thinking:
    1. toolmaker running production, too costly an employee to
    be doing that, let's get another monkey button pusher.
    2. Lot's of OT, making you the highest paid guy on the floor,
    again, let's cut the most cost with the least reduction in headcount.
    Sundays were double time...I was making over 60 an hour to babysit a machine that ran for an hour at a time.

    All because they were too cheap to train or hire other guys. I even offered to train some of the guys in EDM that is 20 feet from the machines...nope lol

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    I forgot to mention...they checked the camera at the entrance...I was 18 minutes late.

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Sundays were double time...I was making over 60 an hour to babysit a machine that ran for an hour at a time.

    All because they were too cheap to train or hire other guys. I even offered to train some of the guys in EDM that is 20 feet from the machines...nope lol
    Gee, I wonder why they were losing money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    Gee, I wonder why they were losing money?
    Hah! They have made a series of bad decisions. Buying equipment that they can't get to work how they want it to...for example, they have these reactors, they cost a million plus each...they have 8 in "service" and like 6 more in storage...for the past 3 years they can't get them to make good parts. And they just keep throwing money at them.

  18. #53
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    You just gotta face it plastic, ......they were looking for a fall guy and chose, or you fell in to their laps.

    Personally I'd just walk away, keep my head down gob shut, not ideal I know, but that way at least I'd keep my dignity, ......and reputation for not making a fuss - could be handy if the next place talks to the previous ??? ............ the last person I'd speak to is a lawyer.

    Apart from anything else, those bastards make enough without my help.

  19. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Hah! They have made a series of bad decisions. Buying equipment that they can't get to work how they want it to...for example, they have these reactors, they cost a million plus each...they have 8 in "service" and like 6 more in storage...for the past 3 years they can't get them to make good parts. And they just keep throwing money at them.
    Sounds like a company getting ready to out source to somewhere. Don't know how to manage or do it so we will send it someplace where labor is cheap to offset the cost of our ignorance.

  20. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    You just gotta face it plastic, ......they were looking for a fall guy and chose, or you fell in to their laps.

    Personally I'd just walk away, keep my head down gob shut, not ideal I know, but that way at least I'd keep my dignity, ......and reputation for not making a fuss - could be handy if the next place talks to the previous ??? ............ the last person I'd speak to is a lawyer.

    Apart from anything else, those bastards make enough without my help.
    Yeah i mean I'm gonna miss it, but I'd never go back to them, not after the way this went down. Hopefully this opportunity pans out and I'm back up and running again. They are dead to me.

  21. #56
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    I am really sorry for You.
    Truly .. I really feel for You.

    Your treatment was abysmal -- and would be very unlikely in the EU.
    Because everyone gets unemployment benefits here -- they were actually prepaid in the SS deductions from the monthly pay.
    Short of setting fire to the factory, everyone gets the benefits for upto 18 months.
    And that money comes from the social security or SS administration, not the company.
    In the monthly deductions from gross salaries, the SS part covers unemployment, injury, bankruptcy etc.

    On top of the gross salary, say 1000€ (for an easy example),
    the SS / tax deductions might be 200€ - but the company ALSO pays an extra 7% or 70€ per month for SS on top of that.
    On 5000€ salary the deductions and taxes are == 1800€ per month.
    And the company pays about 20% on top, or 1000€ extra, overall, for SS and various.

    As such, almost no-one ever starts a fuss since it is one of the reasons their benefits might get adjudicated down.
    Likewise, everyone gets to pick up their stuff -- and often hours or days are allowed, depending on the company.

    And full pay as by law from the company end, amounting to a few months gross pay cash-in-hand, and also parallel unempolyment benefits from the next day from the government.
    And anyone can come to pick up anything they might have forgotten - a senior worker will walk with them.
    Ex-workers are not seen as malicious, and may visit courteously.

    Where I needed to fire someone on no-notice, full pay till end-of-month, full benefits after that, good references, pick and or deliver anything and everything of theirs forgotten.
    The deal was that they are terminated from end-of-month, but full pay/benefits run until that, and the payoffs by law are here in cash, if You wish to acknowledge and sign the receipt.

    And yes, I got orders to do so from HWMBO, and yes, it is shitty for all.
    But pay, cash, respect, decent treatment, unemployment, proper docs - all help to reduce the problem.

    Spain:
    A worker in the sector gets about 5000-7000$ cash (1-2 years time-in. 20-30k on 5+ years) on termination by the company.
    Northern europe:
    The money to the worker comes from the government - as it was already paid for on the monthly deductions.

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  23. #57
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    I experienced the same as Iwananew 10k mentioned the company was struggling so they obviously decided to reduced the head count but a lot of the guys had been there since they left school and were protected by a clause that had been passed down which gave them a fantastic redundancy package at there age they would have got more than they could earn in their remaining working years.So the company said we will have to let a lot go unless the guys who are protected by this higher rate of redundancy protection gave it up they voted on it and gave it up they were obviously company men few months later there was a big pay off and alot went including some of the one who had lost the protection they have gave away.They then started bully tactics and some of the other long termers walked thro the door with nothing. The guy who was in charge of looking for any reason to repremand people had suddenly made manager and he was a poor worker and made a lot of mistakes when he was on the machines but by his tactics he saved the company a fortune by badgering people untill they suddenly just didnt turn up for work and never were seen again.Send me home said I was asleep on the machine which was untrue kept on at me and we had a lot of private conversations and I told him what I thought of him and that I had been logging dates and had witnesses of things he had said to me in past and that my solicitor was waiting with confidence for me to be sacked so I could take them to a tribunal I was soon made redundant but I got my entitlement no way was I going to let him bully me out of my redundancy-Pity because this sort of thing had never happened to me in the past and I had worked for this company on three previous occasions-But it was defenitly tactics to save money and it worked as a lot walked without anything

  24. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Sundays were double time...I was making over 60 an hour to babysit a machine that ran for an hour at a time.

    All because they were too cheap to train or hire other guys. I even offered to train some of the guys in EDM that is 20 feet from the machines...nope lol
    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I forgot to mention...they checked the camera at the entrance...I was 18 minutes late.
    If that 18 minutes was on one of the days when you were getting double time of $60 an hour AND they have a new HR head I think we have solved the mystery. As one of the highest paid you were also the highest profile hourly worker and if management felt they had a company wide attendance problem you were targeted as a high profile "offender".

    At a dollar a minute 18 minutes is 18 dollars you got paid as a no-show. From their point of view if they are losing money and are desperate to find out why, stuff like that is easier to blame than poor business decisions by management. You almost certainly were made an example of and from the point of view of a new HR person you looked bad.

    I got an early lesson from a boss decades ago about tardiness and perception. I usually stopped by the cafeteria for coffee on my way since it seemed more efficient than going upstairs and then making the round trip. Occasionally I was 2 minutes late to my desk. My boss explained to me that while he understood my logic, to others it looked like I was coming in late and how something appears is often as or more important than the reality. He wanted me to go to my desk first and then down to the cafeteria so anyone walking in could see evidence (jacket, etc.) that I had arrived. It was never an issue again and I was grateful that he explained it to me and made sure to always be on time. This boss had a reputation for being stern but I found that as long as I did nothing that reflected badly on him or his department we got along fine and I carried the lesson about lateness and perception throughout my career.

    Use this incident as a learning experience.

  25. #59
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    Kind of story reminds me of my sister who worked in payroll and scheduling in a hospital. Her job came up for review, they evaluated all she did and increased her wages. Six months later, they fired her because she was costing them too much

    God damn accounting bastards. I know we need 'em, those god damn bastards.

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  27. #60
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    I don't see how anyone can look themselves in the mirror after canning someone right before Christmas unless of course that employee did something completely outrageous. I hope Santa brings them a stocking full of coal.

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