OT- Using E10 fuel in lawnmower
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  1. #1
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    Default OT- Using E10 fuel in lawnmower

    My wife just bought a new push mower to clean up where I can't get my riding mower. The dealer she bought it from said the warranty would be void if she used fuel with any alcohol in it and sold her a can of alcohol free fuel (quite expensive). I did some searching to find out what is and is not accurate about the use of E10. I got mixed results. Will adding a gas stabilizer solve the alcohol problem or not? Thanks very much.

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    Been using pump gas for 30 years no issues. Warranty got no idea, but sounds like regular old BS.

    I use stabilizer to keep gas over winter, but I do not think it changes effect of alcohol.... just keeps the gas usable.

    Briggs says as of 2016, the following invalidates the warranty:

    The use of contaminated or stale fuel, gasoline formulated with ethanol greater than
    10%,
    or the use of alternative fuels such as liquefied petroleum or natural gas on
    engines not originally designed/manufactured by Briggs & Stratton to operate on
    such fuels;

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    Some service stations have pumps dispensing alcohol free fuel. Look for one of those if you want to avoid voiding the warranty.

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    If it craps out with E10 fuel ,drain it and put some different fuel in.
    Ive heard its only because it can foul the carb.

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    it's more of a 2 stroke issue. how convenient is it that blowers and chainsaws fail,
    and have disclaimers in the warrantees, while every car on the fucking road that's less than 40 years old runs fine w/ the
    regular gas.
    not a big deal to use the 10% stuff in a 4 stroke as long as you use it right away. the stabil just
    keeps it from turning to shit . good thing is... chinese 2 stk carburetors are cheap as a 12 pack of pbr . used to be 70-100 bucks.
    now they're $10-15 , including shipping from china. premium gas is $3.80/gallon . i switched to a 15A electric chainsaw,
    and a 100' 10 gauge cord. it kicks ass, doesn't give me any trouble.

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    It eats up cheap fuel line and rubber tits on floats

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    What the dealer says is not important, unless the dealer is the one warranting the unit. Look at the warranty in the user manual. Dollars to a pile of rusty swarf that the thing is OK with E10 and says so, similar to the Briggs warranty I quoted. All you gotta do is look at the warranty terms.

    If the terms allow E10, then your dealer is full of crap, and would have to honor the warranty regardless of his opinion.

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    My '38 Rolls is perfectly happy on modern fuel if less than a year old however my modern carbed engines are not. Helping out at a local small engine shop almost all that have had fuel sit for more than a few months have carb issues or won't start. People bring them in for a "tune-up" and we have to drain all the fuel including the now-contaminated fresh gas, drain and or clean carb etc. to get them going. Usually we have a couple more issues like recoils and the like to repair from their attempts to get running. My best results have been from ethanol free premium over the winter, usually start right up in spring.

    However some stations advertised as ethanol free are definitely not. One of my cars, a 650hp small block chev would not start after sitting three weeks with fresh fuel. This was fuel from a Petro-Can station where I had previously had good results.

    Modern regular gasoline is not formulated for use in carbs. Premium is usually better but not always.

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    never had a problem with the gas going bad, but what i have witnessed is the corrosion products of ethanol-water oxidizing the aluminum carb bowl and parts, clogging up the jets. modern rubber hoses don't seem to care.

    for ethanol free gas i just dump an ounce of water into a gallon of gas, shake it up, let it settle out and drain the water-ethanol off the bottom.

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    Here’s a website to find ethanol free stations in N America, it is accurate in my area at least:
    Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

    I use ethanol free in everything smaller than an auto and since I started doing that no carb or fuel plroblems. I had gone through a carb a year on a Honda mower before that and none since.

    Still thinking of changing the riding mower to propane both for price per gallon- locally half the price of ethanol free, and the storage issue that is every winter.

    Chainsaws etc still get the ethanol free in the mix.

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    The real Indians and older Harleys used Linkert and Schebler carburetors that had shellacked cork floats. the ethanol dissolves the shellac, the cork absorbs gasoline and swells, jamming it. Replacement floats are available, believe it or not called "Rubber Duckys" made of a light plastic. I don't know if it is foam or just a very light material and am not going to cut up a $40 float to find out. They are well made and worth the purchase price.

    I went down the ethanol free stations and did not find a single one in the St. Louis area.

    Bill

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    Have not had issues in any motors yet. I have a bunch of them, since I have a bit of a collection, from Jaeger through Briggs, more Briggs, Power Products, Johnson, Tecumseh of varying ages, Wisconsin, etc, etc. All work fine, no shellac in any of them, so no issues with alcohol.

    You cannot let recent gas sit long in a carb unless you have stabilizer in it. . A couple weeks seems to be no issue, much longer and it will not even smell like gas. Over winter in the can and it fif not smell or work like gas. With stabilizer, it lasted all winter, smells like gas, and works fine.

    Got a mower given to me, "does not work, we're tired of it". Almost new "Yard Machines" mower, not what I would buy, but hey, free. Checked it out, and sure enough, runs with gas down the spout, not otherwise. Popped the plastic carb apart, cleaned out the pinkish crystals from the jets and it started in two pulls. I run it out of gas for storage, stabilizer or no, but with the stabilizer it is fine for three weeks at least, no issues.

    Thought I was wrong about that, because it started badly and had no power this year. But when I took the carb apart, I found a piece of crud was clogging the jet. Removed that and all was well. Needs a fuel filter, most likely, that I can do, there is enough fuel line free of obstructions on it.

    Gave the old mower to a friend's son who just bought a house. kept an ancient one from 35 years ago, it always works, even though the neighbor seized it up once by filling the tank to the absolute top, and having gas dilute the oil.... A musician, no mechanical sense, but he'd borrowed it before with no issues. Both those run on current pump gas just fine.

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    Default States Requiring Alcohol in Gasoline

    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/index....u-might-think/

    Tom

    Edit:- Found this interesting site, a listing by states of what stations sell alcohol free gas.

    Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

    T:-

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    Non ethanol gas is a better bet for your mower and other 4 stroke engines. Gas with ethanol will very likely kill 2 strokes if you run it in them when it has absorbed moisture and gone off. You can’t be sure how long that takes.

    Having Fuel Issues?

    Why Ethanol Is an Engine Killer - Walbro

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    Short answer is dealer is full of shit.
    Read the manufactures warranty statement for what is really covered.
    I have a servicing retail store handling Toro, Honda, Simplicity and other
    brands. We see plenty of fuel issues.....usually....related to the age
    of the fuel. Our recommendation is to buy fuel in smaller volume so it stays
    fresh and gets used, repeatedly, in season. At the end of the season buy a bit without ethanol
    or a can of the stupidly expensive crap that the dealer sold you and run it
    thru at seasons end. Or, totally drain the system dry for the off season.
    For tractors with larger tanks,fill with fresh fuel add stabilizer and run
    long enough to get it through the carb.
    If you have easy access to a station selling ethanol free or Rec fuel as it's
    called locally this would also be a good option.
    David

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    Having replaced way too many carbs in the past few years on small engines, I have sworn off anything but 100LL as non-road fuel. Extremely stable, very nice to the rubber in the system. Makes great mix too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfootin View Post
    My '38 Rolls is perfectly happy on modern fuel if less than a year old however my modern carbed engines are not. Helping out at a local small engine shop almost all that have had fuel sit for more than a few months have carb issues or won't start. People bring them in for a "tune-up" and we have to drain all the fuel including the now-contaminated fresh gas, drain and or clean carb etc. to get them going. Usually we have a couple more issues like recoils and the like to repair from their attempts to get running. My best results have been from ethanol free premium over the winter, usually start right up in spring.

    However some stations advertised as ethanol free are definitely not. One of my cars, a 650hp small block chev would not start after sitting three weeks with fresh fuel. This was fuel from a Petro-Can station where I had previously had good results.

    Modern regular gasoline is not formulated for use in carbs. Premium is usually better but not always.
    Ethanol is only a part of the problem, modern gasoline is not same as it was 40 years ago.

    Not sure about US but in here they have "alkylate gasoline" or small engine gasoline that is more pure product without the gumming compounds like polyolefins. High-ish octane rating also without any additives.
    Pricy if you need a lot but I have been using same 5 liter can for 5 years on a chain saw without any issues(not used much, goes sometimes over a year with one filling)

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    If you want to run an engine and shut it off and not think about it, don't use ethanol gas.

    If you maintain your engine, use it regularly and especially if it has a fuel shut off, you can use ethanol gas

    My last two small engines are a chipper[indeterminate age]and generator[9 years old].

    Both developed the need for the choke to be slightly engaged to avoid surging idle.

    At the suggestion of mechanic friend a half a bottle of Lucas fuel treatment and judicious[read excessive] use of carb cleaner, both were cured without opening the carb.

    I am not one for snake oil cures, but fact is it worked.

    One of the problems with 2 strokes is the fuel line runs inside the fuel tank.

    Amusingly the ethanol compatible tygon is apparently ethanol proof on the inside, not the outside, so even the new stuff dissolves in E10

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    It definitely cracks crankshaft seals in two strokes,so if you have any antique poppers ,be careful.......it also turned the potmetal fuel tap and filter to dust in a 80s Honda industrial,but didnt affect the carby.....figure that out...........Anyhoo,out here ,E10 is only slightly cheaper that non E,but has around 5c a liter less energy content...............and as has been known for 100 years ,carburetted engines dont start on pure ethanol,but 10% doesnt seem to have much effect in the hot climate...............But for bikers ,E10 is deadly on fuel tank sealants.

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    Thanks very much for all the replies guys. I don't know if this is true or not but a mechanic told me not to run 2 cycle engines until the carb is dry. He said as they run out of gas they run lean and can score the workings. I know the standard procedure for outboard engines used to be run them till they are empty. I have a lot of gas eating machines and I am trying to establish some sort of protocol so they will start when I need them. I don't use the chainsaws much in the summer. Generator I only use it when we lose power. Weed whackers and things don't get run much etc. I was hoping that just adding StaBil would solve the E10 issue but not sure at this point. Thanks again.


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