OT-THE weekend is here.
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  1. #1
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    Default OT-THE weekend is here.

    This is the time to understand and "get" the sacrifice made by others for our life as we know it.
    To those passed and those that survived I stand in awe and respect.
    Any political views be dammed in this time
    So many good souls on all sides and views.
    I just want to say thank you to all, respect all that have served, and I cry for the fallen.
    Bob
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    This is the time to understand and "get" the sacrifice made by others for our life as we know it.
    To those passed and those that survived I stand in awe and respect.
    Any political views be dammed in this time
    So many good souls on all sides and views.
    I just want to say thank you to all and respect the fallen.
    Bob
    .
    Is frau Gretchen going to her lake cottage while you have to cower in place still ?

    The 10k evacuees in the middle, can volunteers use their power boats to rescue
    them, or only hand paddled canoes & kayaks ?

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    Digger,... park it now. This is not a time or place for politics or such.
    No concept of what Monday is? This has no meaning to you?
    Those that have served are right, left, middle and anything you can think of.
    They deserve respect from us all and the time for that is this weekend.
    Believe in which ever conflict or not so many gave all and many more came back just not the same.
    No one side view or politics. Just normal people doing what was asked of them.
    The long gray line and more has no care for personal viewpoints.
    We should give a shit to the many whose life was cut short or turned upside down.
    Bob

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    My youngest is in quarantine now awaiting deployment to Asia. 3rd Marines PIG, will emerge from this deployment as a HOG if all goes well. My son-in-law is a Marine veteran now attending Hillsdale College in Michigan, 2 deployments to the Mid East maintaining aircraft on a carrier.

    5 years ago I had very little knowledge of the armed forces. Today I have immense respect for the training and mentoring these two young men have been formed by and I am thankful for the long tradition of service and selfless sacrifice of many who have gone before them.

    Memorial Day is different now.

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    All gave some, some gave all.

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    I've been reading a lot of history lately, 500-600 page books.
    One thing I learned is not to make judgements on our leaders
    past or present, about foreign policy decisions they made.
    For every war the US has fought, there has been an insane
    amount of agonizing decisions to make. Take for example
    Japan at the end of WWII. "Do we drop the nuclear bomb
    and kill 100,000+ civilians or send in our boys and watch
    100,000 get killed?" There are no easy answers for these
    questions and I have a high degree of respect for our
    leaders that need to make such decisions.

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    Every Memorial Day we go to the local war memorial gathering to honor those that went before. This year will be no different.

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    America: land of the free because of the brave.

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    I would have not had any agony over dropping the bomb. Agony is a good thing - if taken in moderation.

    When you are at war - especially with a country that attacked you - their lives are worthless, your lives are priceless. There is no room for discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Digger,... park it now. This is not a time or place for politics or such.
    No concept of what Monday is? This has no meaning to you?
    Those that have served are right, left, middle and anything you can think of.
    They deserve respect from us all and the time for that is this weekend.
    Believe in which ever conflict or not so many gave all and many more came back just not the same.
    No one side view or politics. Just normal people doing what was asked of them.
    The long gray line and more has no care for personal viewpoints.
    We should give a shit to the many whose life was cut short or turned upside down.
    Bob
    WooHoo...Park it now...I love it.
    You think when you start a thread you can control it ?

    HaHaHa

    I love it man.

  15. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    WooHoo...Park it now...I love it.
    You think when you start a thread you can control it ?

    HaHaHa

    I love it man.
    IMHO, anyone who politicizes this thread or starts an argument here should be banned for a week.

    I mean, good grief, we can't have ONE thread without a mudfest.???

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    ...When you are at war - especially with a country that attacked you - their lives are worthless, your lives are priceless. There is no room for discussion.
    Uh, you might want to turn the tables and think about that.

    Starting, say around 1950, make a list of all those countries whom our government has decided we must attack and think about whether your life is then worthless.

    There hasn't been an American war in the last 70 years I've supported, but I do respect the sacrifice (dead or not) that many have been willing to make.

    That's what Memorial Day is about.

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    Edward Paul Alciatore, USMC, RIP below the waters of the Pacific Ocean, 1923 - 1943.

    And all the others who paid the ultimate price in the past wars that made our country and made it great. May God bless each and every one of them.

    And thank the Lord there weren't more.

    As for dropping The Bomb on Japan, 100,000 US deaths is the LOW side of the estimated deaths in our armed forces if we had invaded Japan. Twice that many was more like what it would have been. And no one seems to mention how many Japanese deaths that would have brought. There is little doubt that we would have prevailed. But the Japanese death toll would have been twice what ours would have been; 250,000 was on the LOW side of the estimates there. I am sure the dropping of the bomb was a gut wrenching decision, but it saved not only the lives of our armed forces, and not only those of our allies, but also many, many Japanese as well. Probably around a half million Japanese just in their armed forces. Even more among their civilian population. Was it the right decision? I can only answer, "Yes!" It was the only decision that could have been made.

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    One thing that adds another dimension to The Bomb decision, is the opening of the can of worms that put the world into the atomic age. Quite possibly that saved lives long term by preventing wars. But, history isn't over yet. Will there still be a nuclear holocaust?

    Alright, I'm going to stop there. I wasn't going to take sides. My point was bringing out the awesome and life-altering decisions our leaders, (not just the government) makes in time of war. I don't think it's right to be too critical of their decisions considering what was at stake that we never saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Uh, you might want to turn the tables and think about that.

    Starting, say around 1950, make a list of all those countries whom our government has decided we must attack and think about whether your life is then worthless.

    There hasn't been an American war in the last 70 years I've supported, but I do respect the sacrifice (dead or not) that many have been willing to make.

    That's what Memorial Day is about.
    I'm not sure who we've attacked but that's beside the point....yes, my life and your life is worthless to 'those people'. That's why it's called war and not a bridal shower.

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    "One thing that adds another dimension to The Bomb decision, is the opening of the can of worms that put the world into the atomic age. Quite possibly that saved lives long term by preventing wars. But, history isn't over yet. Will there still be a nuclear holocaust?"



    A student of history will easily learn that the nuclear age was hardly an 'invention' of the USA. We simply got there first, which is a very place to be. Several other countries were also working on nuclear bombs. It's a little like the advent of electricity....it was gonna happen one way or the other. Be glad it wasn't someone else.

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    Gut wrenching decisions are at all levels, from the lowest to highest. But it probably helped Truman make that decision having been a battery commander in WW1 and knowing exactly what the cost would be at that level. From a purely selfish standpoint I'm damn glad he made the call the way he did. My Dad was in a pilot pool awaiting orders - he would have been driving a B-25 for the invasion of Japan. And he told me he always had the premonition he would not have made it back - in which case I would not be here.

    A team leader (buck sergeant in charge of 5-6 soldiers/marines) picking someone to walk point, dropping a nuke - I really don't think there is that much difference at the base level. Probably can argue it philosophically, but I'm no philosopher. Those decisions are hard.

    When I was selected to be a battalion operations officer (major's job) I was feeling pretty good about it. First conversation my boss (the battalion commander, a lieutenant colonel) had with me - I still remember his look almost 40 years later and what he said. 'You do realize that you now have a job where you might have to look a man in the eyes and send him well knowing he and his unit will not all come back'. That sobers you up fast. I was lucky - never had to do that.

    There are too many who I will remember this weekend who did not come back.

    Dale

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I've been reading a lot of history lately, 500-600 page books.
    One thing I learned is not to make judgements on our leaders
    past or present, about foreign policy decisions they made.
    For every war the US has fought, there has been an insane
    amount of agonizing decisions to make. Take for example
    Japan at the end of WWII. "Do we drop the nuclear bomb
    and kill 100,000+ civilians or send in our boys and watch
    100,000 get killed?" There are no easy answers for these
    questions and I have a high degree of respect for our
    leaders that need to make such decisions.

    Have you read Churchill's books he wrote? I bought the set not long ago, but have not read them yet....I have 10 or so books to read ahead of those. Jeff

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    WooHoo...Park it now...I love it.
    You think when you start a thread you can control it ?

    HaHaHa

    I love it man.
    "Control"? "Ignore" still works to make fuckwits "invisible enough".

  26. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    As for dropping The Bomb on Japan, 100,000 US deaths is the LOW side of the estimated deaths in our armed forces if we had invaded Japan. Twice that many was more like what it would have been.
    -I seem to recall reading that we minted five hundred thousand Purple Heart medals, in anticipation of trying to take the Japanese Islands. Last I heard, some eighty years later, we still had around one hundred thousand in inventory.

    Japanese casualties were estimated in the 1.5 million range.

    There never was any real debate, angst or worry about "dropping the bomb". The calculation was very straightforward, even from the beginning: Option one, incinerate a hundred thousand or so Japanese, and possibly end the War at a stroke. Or option two, invade by land and air, throw half a million men into a meat grinder, and kill a million-plus Japanese.

    No one "in the know" at the time, agonized over that decision. It was never a question of "should we do this?", it was always only a decision of "how soon can we have it ready?"

    Doc.


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