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    Default OT: what year Ford powerstroke engines to avoid?

    Heard about certain years that the powerstroke Diesel in Ford pickups were prone to problems, expensive repairs. I believe the issue was the head / head gasket?


    What year Ford F250,F350, F450 and F550 with the diesel would you avoid?

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    Anything with the 6.0.

    There are worse years of that engine too.

    We have a client that has fleet of international engines.

    They have lots of special tools and are very good at replacing engines.

    They should not be good at changing engines...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    The 6.0 diesel starting 2003 had major problems costing around $5000 to correct.

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    Avoid all of them!

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    Any 6.4

    Pre 2016 6.7's

    I really like 6.0's and don't buy into the rap they have. Every diesel truck will have major repair bills. 6.0's are predictable, reliable and have good power and fuel econ. Shops that have no place working on diesel trucks have given them a worse reputation than any engine has (except the 6.4, hot trash).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    Any 6.4

    Pre 2016 6.7's

    I really like 6.0's and don't buy into the rap they have. Every diesel truck will have major repair bills. 6.0's are predictable, reliable and have good power and fuel econ. Shops that have no place working on diesel trucks have given them a worse reputation than any engine has (except the 6.4, hot trash).
    Was shopping for a ton truck last year and almost went with a 6.0. Ended up with an LBZ duramax instead for about the same money. The V10 gas engines were disappointing to me, and couldnt afford the new 7.3 gas. The old 7.3 diesel transmission leaves a lot to be desired - as all pre 2005ish transmissions did.

    After test driving half a dozen straight axle fords from 2005-2010 (work truck to lariat trim), the base model duramax rides and drives like a caddy. I did have to put ball joints in it, but that wasnt too bad. All of them were 4wd, 2wd fords might handle a little better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Avoid all of them!
    Oof. Go back to your hole.

    7.3 idiís, air intrusion, difficult to start, simple and cheap to maintain and last forever. 7.3 powerstrokes, expensive injectors but otherwise bulletproof. E4OD, fine if not abused like the yokels tend to do and significantly better xmission than GMís 4L60E.

    6.0/6.4, hot garbage. 6.7, never had any issues other than injectors but what diesel hasnít. Nothing terminal. Duramax LB7/LBZ/LMM, awesome.

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    2010 Ford F350 diesel. Did they have the 6.4L that year?

    Do the problems typically show up after 100k ? Would a truck with 60K or less mileage be ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Mech View Post
    Oof. Go back to your hole.

    7.3 idi’s, air intrusion, difficult to start, simple and cheap to maintain and last forever. 7.3 powerstrokes, expensive injectors but otherwise bulletproof. E4OD, fine if not abused like the yokels tend to do and significantly better xmission than GM’s 4L60E.

    6.0/6.4, hot garbage. 6.7, never had any issues other than injectors but what diesel hasn’t. Nothing terminal. Duramax LB7/LBZ/LMM, awesome.
    I never considered the IDI motor, the power just isnt there. I'm not in the hotshot business, but I do deliver parts and move machines around a fair amount, and wanted to be able to hold the speed limit on the interstate with a 20k gooseneck behind me. I didnt really have a lot of confidence the E4OD would hold up to that usage, even though it's better than the GM 4L80e, of which I killed 2 behind a 5.7 and only a 14k trailer within about 20k miles total.

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    2010 is the 6.4. Time bomb at any mileage. Thats why they are cheap. You may get lucky, I know a guy who has 300k on one, but that is pretty rare. That truck cracks radiators every 20k miles, no matter what aftermarket job he tried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside Fab View Post
    The old 7.3 diesel transmission leaves a lot to be desired - as all pre 2005ish transmissions did.
    Pretty happy with my 2002 7.3 manual ;-). But I know what you're getting at - the auto's. And finding the manuals are akin to hen's teeth...

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    I own a 7.3l

    Companies that I've worked for had the following:

    one owned a f350 6.0 in and out of the shop

    this one...power strokes 7.3l, 6.0, 6.4, and Cummins

    6.0 and 6.4 have problems....

    they trade everything out on a schedule, every department changes vehicles and specs their own.........the new 6.7 seem to be holding up well.

    The majority of the light vehicles are gas engines....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antarctica View Post
    Pretty happy with my 2002 7.3 manual ;-). But I know what you're getting at - the auto's. And finding the manuals are akin to hen's teeth...
    Yeah, you might as well get a cdl truck if you want something better than the slushbox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    Heard about certain years that the powerstroke Diesel in Ford pickups were prone to problems, expensive repairs. I believe the issue was the head / head gasket?


    What year Ford F250,F350, F450 and F550 with the diesel would you avoid?
    I have had good luck with the ones that say RAM on the front, but my wife only will have ones with the "F" word on them.
    they all have good and bad.

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    The 6.4's are by far the worst. Perfect combo of extreme difficulty to repair combined with high probability of major failures.

    IMO, the only thing good about a 6.4 is the crankshaft because you can do a little machinework to it and stuff it in a 6.0.

    6.0's are terrible if you take it to a bad shop. 6.0 can be a bargain if you buy it right and know how to keep it running.

    That said though, I would not trust a 6.0 to be as reliable as a Cummins or certain years of Duramax. The 6.0 oil and fuel system was designed by Rube Goldberg on acid. It's 100 times more complicated than it should be with 500 too many O-rings to leak.

    Of all the new diesels I have not heard much negative about the Ford 6.7. I met a hotshot guy that had one a couple years old with 300k+ on it. He loved it, said he traded in a Duramax for it and was very happy. Time will tell though. They are a very complex design.


    I don't think the 7.3 is a bad engine, but the economy, reliability nor the power have ever impressed me enough to pick one over a gas engine. Lots of guys seem to own them that just love diesel no matter what and could care less as long as it starts and goes down the road. I think if a 7.3 made respectable power I would be a bigger fan. If it was fun to drive.

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    The 6.0 had head gasket issues. The right repair was different head bolts and thicker gaskets if I recall. After which, you could drop bowling balls down the intake and not blow head gaskets.

    I want to say issues with stuck egr that could leak coolant into the engine.

    Then hard start issues/running rough with the high rail oil pressure needed for injector activation. Which could be seals at injectors, the high pressure pump, or a broken oil line to feed both sides of the vee. All a pita.

    Also a $2000 or so control module that if doesn't read a certain voltage will make a no start issue

    The 7.3 was great, but its to the age of major overhaul, or wrecked other parts due to time and age.

    Unless you're hauling heavy weight often, or running 50k miles a year, I'd never buy a diesel. Maintenance repair costs are just too high. New engines with the cow piss def system worse yet. Every minor repair will be $1000-$2000. Where you could crater a gas engine and have it swung for probably under $5000

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    arp head studs and o ringing the heads goes a long way but it's still a 6.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside Fab View Post
    I didnt really have a lot of confidence the E4OD would hold up to that usage, even though it's better than the GM 4L80e
    There are a few specialist transmission shops that can make a bullet proof E40D, which would make sense if you have to have a 7.3 and nothing else.

    I have a 2001 and the E40D was rebuilt at about 100k miles when the mechanical diode went bad. At 190k it's still shifting great. When or if it goes bad I'll pull it out and fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I don't think the 7.3 is a bad engine, but the economy, reliability nor the power have ever impressed me enough to pick one over a gas engine. Lots of guys seem to own them that just love diesel no matter what and could care less as long as it starts and goes down the road. I think if a 7.3 made respectable power I would be a bigger fan. If it was fun to drive.
    Not sure reliability has ever been an issue, not that I've heard. Although your better placed than I am to know whether the 7.3 is as reliable as it's made out to be. I have a 2001 F350 7.3 with 190k, I'd be pissed of if it didn't make it 500k miles. I'll die before i get to 300k at the rate I'm driving it now.

    As for power in stock trim it's a bit of a dog. The truck came with a TS 6 position controller. I drive with it set to the 50+hp setting. It really wakes up the engine, much more responsive at small throttle settings, and about 10lbs more boost, so noticeably better acceleration and pulling. The higher settings have much harsher transmission gear changes, so I never drive with those settings (just once) In the 50+hp setting, even when towing the EGT's don't get passed 1200f uphill. Although I don't tow anything heavy. I suspect towing 10-20klbs uphill might be problematic.

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    Default OT: what year Ford powerstroke engines to avoid?

    My girlfriend has a 97 F-350 horse-hauler. Iím neither a Ford guy or a diesel guy, but most of the guys I work with are both. I donít particularly like being seen in the Ford despite frequently appreciating appreciating the benefits of having access to a 1-ton pickup truck. Judging from their market share, Ford has the lions share of the big truck market. A couple months back I got the opportunity to park her truck next to a friends 2013 250. I believe his has the 6.7... I barely have meaningful seat time in the 350 and have only ridden in later models.

    The 7.3 Turbo... more like 7.3 Turd-O in factory form. Itíll pull the world... eventually, and so long as you remembered to leave early itís entertaining watching people hurt themselves to get around you. That motor is likely 1000#ís of mostly cast iron, with absolutely no provision given to anything beyond diesel truck engine. Not a thought of emissions compliance, no need to even consider weight as the engine would only be in exempt heavy trucks. No ďengine managementĒ management to speak of. Compared to a Chevy big block the engine is HUGE!, but you can still see and access stuff like... the valve covers. You can SEE the turbo by merely opening the hood.

    Meanwhile, my buddyís F-250 is the most recent body style... you know, the one where most dealership/warrantee maintenance starts by removing the cab from the frame. My buddy loves his truck, but itís had some MAJOR issues prior to the coolant leak he brought the truck to my shop to chase. By the time he found his coolant leak, with the cab still in place, mind you, he had removed a 2.0 four cylinders worth of metal. The EGR-valve probably weighs 40-50 pounds of wildly big AND complex aluminum. He had pounds of wiring and hoses EVERYWHERE. So many hoses, it appeared not a single one where any fitting repeated. The charge side of the intake is in like four separate pieces all with highly specific, large, high-pressure fittings. Again, each section specific and I didnít see a single fitting twice. Because the job was SO time-consuming, especially limited to weekends and evenings after commute and 10-12 hours of real job, there was time for research and parts to be ordered AND delivered. He winds up doing both DEF and EGR delete. The EGR delete was under $50, and itís just a block-off plate and bypass hose. Iím not privy to cost or depth-of-work to do on the DEF delete. The truck no longer smells like rotten piss at the tailpipe. The truck has whatever the most basic ďchipĒ is. Stock exhaust, no sort of ďhot-rodĒ physical parts. Mostly all he did was remove or replace BURIED OEM parts. I believe the chip is mostly to trick the computer however it needs to be tricked to do the DEF delete. No diesel emissions standards here in Georgia, my friend wasnít chasing performance, he was fixing A problem and wound up simplifying a job he hopes to not have to repeat.

    I havenít driven his, but Iíve ridden in it. His front-live-axle truck rides, stops, steers and tows INFINITELY better than the older, TTB IFS truck. This same friend used to have an 02/03 F-350. Different body my girls, but both had the same 7.3 and trans. With the model change Ford went back to a live axle for the one-tons. Still that truck seemed to turn and steer way better than my girls, I get that itís a truck and ďhandlingĒ typically takes a backseat to capacity.

    Everything I know about the 6.0 and 6.4 Powerstroke seconds what others wrote above. Those engines had PROBLEMS, only exacerbated if you tried to turn them up.

    The bigger problem I see, after watching my buddy do a pretty good job as a technician is that thereís just no easy way to service much at all on the newest trucks easily. Like every modern car, when they work, theyíre better than ever before. Problem is to make new cars that much better, necessity has dictated that new cars are even more complex than their predecessors. The first car magazines I can remember reading had me convinced that much more that anything over 400hp was IMPOSSIBLE from the small block Chevys 5.7l. Now the OEM are getting power figures better than that with HALF the displacement and offering 100k mile warranties to boot. It takes the average American 6-7 years to rack up those miles. The problem of perception as well as cost. That gas sedan... you know, the one that cost only 1/3 of the pickup and is perceived to be worn out after that mileage. The econobox sedan can be practically thrown away. Meanwhile the perception of diesels is that they last indefinitely.

    Problem is a diesel engine ďainít even runned inĒ when the 100k mile warranty runs out. I donít know WHAT you do if you have to make major repairs out of warrantee. Independent shops donít charge what the dealership does, but independent shops also usually donít have spare lifts to tie up with a truck cab while the rest of the truck takes up a whole other bay. Independents will have to order whatever parts they invariably break getting a hose off or dropping never to be seen again. My friend is third generation FORD. TRUCK. MAN. and has spent plenty of time under the hood of Ford 3/4-tons. Heíd done enough research to know where to start looking for his coolant leak. Even so his repair required removing LAYERS of unrelated hoses and wires and 60-pound castings. As involved as my friendís repair turned out to be, it was probably 1/2 the work required to service the turbo. The 6.7 turbo is buried so deep in the ďveeĒ of an engine buried so tight in the cab you literally cannot see any part of the turbo or impeller housing until the whole intake tract has been removed. Im sure that removing the cab gives a tech all the room in the world. As tight as the packaging is on the new truck I donít know if you can access the bellhousing bolts to separate the transmission. A transmission which, Iíll reiterate, IS SO MUCH BETTER than whatís behind the 7.3.


    The girls 7.3 shows only 120k, an hour meter would likely tell a different story, but the transmission isnít worn out, itís just old... and probably sucked when new. The shift strategy is really weird and the only way the torque converter locks up in overdrive is when the truck is coasting. She loves everything about that old 7.3 and people will cross the street to make offers on the truck.

    Iím a bow tie guy, and still not a diesel person, but the consensus Iíve gotten is that the Duramax is way problematic. It makes good power and the Allison trans is rumored to be AWESOME, but things break and Iím sure theyíre stupid complex as well.

    Cummins are probably the best engine of the bunch, the 7.3 powerstoke MAY come close, but I donít think anyone has turned a powerstroke up to the levels mildly built Cummins make. Interpret as you will, but Iíve been noticing a TON of Cummins-badged Nissans lately. I have absolutely NO idea what Dodgeís competition to a C/10 or F100 is... canít say Iíve ever seen one...

    Not having frequent enough need to own a 3/4 or 1-ton truck or any particular interest in the nuance of compression-ignition engines, I am totally content not having a horse in this race. Frankly, if I NEEDED an eight-lug truck enough I would probably be looking for a older Chevy, not GMC(personal preference), 2500 HD with the 8.1l gas motor. Well maintained gas motors are going the best part of the way towards diesel mileage. The gas motor is far easier to perform any level of service, and when weíre talking about Chevrolet engines and transmissions, Chevy was real smart, way smarter than Ford and the other guy. Pick ANY Chevrolet V8... pick any Chevrolet transmission... if either engine or trans breaks, some form of replacement will be cheap and readily available. Thereís a total wealth of information on proven combos and practices to take any setup from mild to wild; as strong as your wallet can warrant.

    Any diesel engine makes a little more torque in stock (semi) reliable form. I know you can turn the newer diesels WAY up without breaking the head; exhaust or oil-pan factory gaskets. Itís my understanding that the efficiency of a diesel doesnít suffer as badly as a gas motor would have to in order to make 1000 ft. lbs. Because these ridiculous power numbers can be made with mostly turbo-back exhaust systems and engine management, you can dial the output up and down. A flick of a switch; with the engine totally stock can go from 8-12 mpg towing 30k, to power figures well above a thousand torque and Hp.

    Hereís the missus and mine:


    Theyíre both big-boy 8-lug trucks... 2WD. Mine has all the options required to get C/30 or a one-ton rating in a pickup. GM never officially made a one-ton suburban. Hers tows the horse and trailer. I donít have a horse. Or a trailer. I do get better gas mileage and spend less on my fuel. Mine starts moving as soon as my foot leaves the brake pedal while hers only makes noise for the first couple hundred rpm. My parts are always cheaper and more easily come by. Most importantly to me, the reason I built my suburban, is I can stretch out in the back isolated from the trash, pollen and leaves in the bed of every pickup truck. We can both shut the tailgate on a full 4x8, but my sheetgoods will stay dry. Her engine is totally stock, mine is pretty mild: 496ci stroker big block. With fuel injection and regular maintenance I should easily get 150k or more before the engine HAS to be rebuilt or replaced, but I can do any of that in my driveway, with a modicum of tools and no need for heavy equipment or a rigging crew. Emphasis on me doing it... in my spare time, with tools Iím already likely to own and with such part availability that I can probably have the engine removed, rebuilt and replaced before the local diesel specialist has completed his diagnostic work and definitely before heís ordered parts that cost more that the ubiquitous small-block/big-block parts.



    If youíve taken the time to read all of this...



    You should have a fairly good idea of my personal perspective. Youíre welcome if any part of my rant answered your question and Iím sorry for wasting your time if you didnít at least enjoy my raving





    Jeremy

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