The overuse of Torque settings for fixings ? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    It was too hot so I had walmart change then oil and filter on my wife's Ford Contour. To do the filter one front wheel has to come off. I am sure they used an air wrench to put on the lug nuts. Several months latter the wheel fell off while she was driving in town. They had sheared one lug stud, the break was rusted. Then it torqued the others and the nuts came off. If they had not over tightened the nuts it would not have broken.
    Bill D

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    everything in the plant here 8NM and above has a torque spec. its there for a reason, just some larger fasteners have a much broader torque range they are ok in all defined by an engineer that classes the spec if its a super critical torque, critical torque, or non critical like a screw into a plastic trim part.

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    Years ago an engineering professor explained to me that any dummy can make something strong. A good engineer can design it just barely strong enough so that it is a light as possible, and uses the least amount of materials possible without failure. Those bike frames are designed in that way so they are as light as possible. I would follow the recommendations on them but not bother on a more standard frame which is likely to be not on the cutting edge of the weight to strength ratio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterworks View Post
    An argument I'm having with a high end bicycle owner that the torque specs the bike manufacturer is giving out for non critical components on bicycles are just superfluous and only exist so customers can feel
    Above arguments notwitstanding, some of it is to stop tech calls and emails. I make and sell some motorcycle parts. I get calls and emails asking for a torque spec on just about everything. One spot is a 1/4-20 X 3/4 SHCS going into a case hardened stand, holding a compression spring in place. You can't possible overtorque it with a hex wrench. This week's question was on a pair of1/4-20 grade 5 holding a chain adjuster shoe in place - they goe through a steel plate, through the plastic shoe, then thread into another steel plate. There are 2 capscrews 3/4" apart, there is a lock plate under the heads that both capscrews go through, you tighten the capscrews then bend up the tabs to hold the hex heads from turning. Customer had no idea how tight to make them. The MC manufacturer never published a spec, and the last manual covering these bikes was written 20+ years ago.

    Current consumers have no idea how to tighten fasteners without a torque wrench and a spec chart, or how to look up generic fastener specs. Everyone publishes torque specs to stop the calls, so every user expects all the instructions to have specs for every fastener, and makes the call if there isn't one.

    How many support calls can you field on a $29.95 retail item? None. so you put the torque spec in the instructions.

  6. #25
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    I think the overabundant torque specs might be due to the fact that many who may buy the bikes and do much of their own maintenance might have little prior mechanical experience. Growing up, we were "gear heads" from an early age and learned from the older guys.

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    "It was too hot so I had walmart change then oil and filter on my wife's Ford Contour. To do the filter one front wheel has to come off. I am sure they used an air wrench to put on the lug nuts. Several months latter the wheel fell off while she was driving in town. They had sheared one lug stud, the break was rusted. Then it torqued the others and the nuts came off. If they had not over tightened the nuts it would not have broken.
    Bill D "


    I was driving a 2 year old Lexus SC300 just north of Dallas, dead of winter
    and snowy. Noticed I had about 5lbs of air in one tire. Made it to a service station, the guy fixed the flat (bad valve stem) and retightened the lugs with an impact. When I got to Tulsa, two of the lugs had already popped off and the others were close. They were only 70lbs. spec'd and he probably used 145lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I think the overabundant torque specs might be due to the fact that many who may buy the bikes and do much of their own maintenance might have little prior mechanical experience. Growing up, we were "gear heads" from an early age and learned from the older guys.
    Yeah, but they can out man-bun you any day of the week.

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    Tighten until loose, then back off a quarter turn

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    I work on automotive aftermarkety stuff, and the amount of trucks that come in with loose or under/overtorqued bolts and stripped threads is crazy. We started using torque wrenches on some less critical stuff because it becomes critical if it falls off.

    One customer overtightened a bolt in a weld nut because he got the wrong torque spec from a customer made youtube video. Weld nuts aren't grade 8, folks.

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    Is it really common practice to combine stainless and aluminum fasteners on bicycles? Is galvanic corrosion a common cause of failure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    It was too hot so I had walmart change then oil and filter on my wife's Ford Contour. To do the filter one front wheel has to come off. I am sure they used an air wrench to put on the lug nuts. Several months latter the wheel fell off while she was driving in town. They had sheared one lug stud, the break was rusted. Then it torqued the others and the nuts came off. If they had not over tightened the nuts it would not have broken.
    Bill D
    "Lube Rack Monkeys", the least talented people in the automotive field. I always use an impact wrench (IR-231) that has different torque settings for forward and reverse. Setting 5 for full torque when loosening and setting 3 for tightening. Never had a lug nut come loose by accident or so tight that a 4-way wrench couldn't easily loosen it. The factory "lug not wrench" will also work but sometimes stepping on it is easier than pulling on it. Always trust the lazy man to show the most efficient method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Yeah, but they can out man-bun you any day of the week.
    Man bun?

    Around here they're known as nob knobs or hummer handles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Yeah, but they can out man-bun you any day of the week.
    True, but never forget ;- a wanker's a wanker - no matter the hairstyle
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 04-29-2021 at 03:38 AM. Reason: tix fyop

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    As someone who has to calculate and test torque settings on daily basis - use the torque wrench. It's basically impossible to deduce how tight a bolt needs to be without looking at all the variables (diameter, pitch, material, grease, dirt, thread condition, underhead area, thread engagement, shank diameter, finish, joint material, bolt grade, bolt tolerance, rolled/cut threads etc etc...), anyone who claims they can tighten up any bolt correctly based on experience is letting their ego get ahead of them. It's probably even more important on a high end bike, where everything's carbon fibre and aluminium, it's remarkably easy to destroy parts on these.

    That said, it's a risk assessment, does your confidence in hitting a suitable bolt tension without a torque wrench outweigh the risk of not hitting it? My lug nuts are getting torqued every time, but that interior plastic panel fixing is getting whatever the hell I feel like...

    (Side note: there is an exception, when using 'torque to yield' fixings like cylinder heads bolts, these are designed to yield when the correct tension is reached, and can most definitely be done by feel alone)

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    Why a torque wrench for simple items ?
    "Lawyers".....

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    And angular torque bolts, tighten to spec plus x no of degrees, weird
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwearing View Post
    Is it really common practice to combine stainless and aluminum fasteners on bicycles? Is galvanic corrosion a common cause of failure?
    If you think stainless bolts in stainless threads gall, try aluminum bolts in aluminum threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwearing View Post
    Is it really common practice to combine stainless and aluminum fasteners on bicycles? Is galvanic corrosion a common cause of failure?
    Bicycles with that "feature" don't live long enough to matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Yeah, but they can out man-bun you any day of the week.
    I work with a guy with a bun, maybe 140 pounds soaking wet, can tighten the propane to the point I need water pump pliers to open it (he's a rock climber, told him to back off there), and he doesn't cycle but at 25 works like all the old curmudgeons I came up with, i.e. hard as hell.

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  30. #40
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    The better automotive shops use the color-coded torque limiting adapters on their rattle guns. See also: torque wrench.....


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