OT - (not really) Drones and Cameras - Who runs them?

Ultimately there is machining involved, but I need to learn some things first.

Who here is well versed in cameras for drones? I'm doing a secret squirrel project and need high resolution video of the sort that a GoPro provides, but need it to be much smaller. I want a lens that is no larger than 0.750"/19mm diameter. 9"-12" of ribbon or round cable to the electronics would be good. I imagine that the weakest point is going to be the cheap optics, but I have no experience. Is it possible that they're not bad. (?)

I'm investigating some quality cameras and bits from Sony and others, but the thought occurred to me that the drone guys are using stuff that SEEMS to fit the bill rather nicely. I simply have zero experience with anything about them ( drones or cameras ) so don't know what kind of quality that they ACTUALLY provide. Is the video anything comparable to a GoPro?

Talk to me...

Well, I have one, and I'm very impressed with the images. No noticeable compression artifacts, and this is a low-budget unit. The optics probably aren't up to automation / AI monitoring or anything like that, but the images look good. High res means different things to different people. How high?

Gordon Heaton said:

High res means different things to different people. How high?

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"I don't know" is the technical answer. As high as a GoPro of recent vintage is the practical answer. I'm seeing 4K as being the current standard.

Browsing through the youtubes seems to indicate that something like the Caddx Ratel would be pretty acceptable, but I'm admittedly ignorant about this, and they aren't filming the same things I am considering, so I don't really have any frame of comparison for it. No automation needed. No AI. Just plain old recording of video.

Thanks.

How are your electronic chops?
This is easy with a modern high- speed 32 bit ARM microcontoller with DCMI and QSPI. All you need is a digital camera module, the chip and an sd card holder. The chip can use dmas and double buffering to stream a frame from the camera while writing the last complete frame to the sd card. Doesn't even require any processor overhead. An STMF7 could do it.

I have a DJI Maverick 2 drone, it is nice, easy to fly, has kick ass camera/gimbal combo. It is a bit on the pricey side, but you get a good drone. One nice thing is they a a lot of apps that you can to really be able fine tune the camera. Hope this helps you, if you want to talk about it PM me.

MrStretch said:

How are your electronic chops?

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I am largely ignorant, but able to be educated. I know what basic components are and how they operate, but am by no means at all, knowledgeable.

MrStretch said:

This is easy with a modern high- speed 32 bit ARM microcontoller with DCMI and QSPI. All you need is a digital camera module, the chip and an sd card holder. The chip can use dmas and double buffering to stream a frame from the camera while writing the last complete frame to the sd card. Doesn't even require any processor overhead. An STMF7 could do it.

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A trip to the google machine will allow that to make some minor sense to me, but for now all I heard was Charlie Brown's teacher.

doug8cat said:

I have a DJI Maverick 2 drone, it is nice, easy to fly, has kick ass camera/gimbal combo. It is a bit on the pricey side, but you get a good drone. One nice thing is they a a lot of apps that you can to really be able fine tune the camera. Hope this helps you, if you want to talk about it PM me.

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Thanks. To be very clear - I have no interest in the drone part*. My interest lies solely with the camera for video ( and snatching stills from, later )

* - I _am_ interested in them, casually. However, this inquiry has little to do with the actual drone part.

I am mostly interested in how your video compares to a GoPro 7 or 8. Have you compared them, at all? A GP7/8 will do what I seek, handily. The issue here is size and location of components. Oddly ( to me ), drone cameras are configured nearly exactly what I endeavor. I'm simply concerned about the quality of the video and some other minor, easily surmountable things. ( like learning specifically which components I need.

I want the thing to run from battery, remotely mounted lens**, have SD card swappable port, be able to be turned on and off remotely, and be capable of the same 4k video as GPs do.

** - I am fine with replacing the cable or ribbon cable with a longer one, here.

Is this possible?

Thanks.

Zahnrad Kopf said:

I am largely ignorant, but able to be educated. I know what basic components are and how they operate, but am by no means at all, knowledgeable.



A trip to the google machine will allow that to make some minor sense to me, but for now all I heard was Charlie Brown's teacher.



Thanks. To be very clear - I have no interest in the drone part*. My interest lies solely with the camera for video ( and snatching stills from, later )

* - I _am_ interested in them, casually. However, this inquiry has little to do with the actual drone part.

I am mostly interested in how your video compares to a GoPro 7 or 8. Have you compared them, at all? A GP7/8 will do what I seek, handily. The issue here is size and location of components. Oddly ( to me ), drone cameras are configured nearly exactly what I endeavor. I'm simply concerned about the quality of the video and some other minor, easily surmountable things. ( like learning specifically which components I need.

I want the thing to run from battery, remotely mounted lens**, have SD card swappable port, be able to be turned on and off remotely, and be capable of the same 4k video as GPs do.

** - I am fine with replacing the cable or ribbon cable with a longer one, here.

Is this possible?

Thanks.

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Cutting a hole in the bathroom wall sounds easier...

I was into racing drones for a few years (kinda got out of them for a while now) anyhow for about 2 years now there has been a distinct lack of direct comparisons between things like the runcam split series and the gopro series. Looks like the consensus is (2 years ago) if you want the utmost in video gopro is the best by a small margin.

So for your application whatever it is you have to ask yourself can you give up just a little bit of quality for the form factor then your probably ok.

The issue you might end up with is the switching remotely. these things use digital commands to interface between a flight controller and the camera/recording unit. I'm not sure how you want to remotely start or stop recording. if your wanting to do it with a radio you will probably need to put a flight control board in the list of electronics just so it can interface between the rx and the recorder unit.

tjd10684 said:

I was into racing drones for a few years (kinda got out of them for a while now) anyhow for about 2 years now there has been a distinct lack of direct comparisons between things like the runcam split series and the gopro series. Looks like the consensus is (2 years ago) if you want the utmost in video gopro is the best by a small margin.

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Precisely. That's why I thought to ask of the drone users here. Everything on the tube seems to be comps between "X" ( usually Tarsius ) and GP Hero 5 cams.

tjd10684 said:

So for your application whatever it is you have to ask yourself can you give up just a little bit of quality for the form factor then your probably ok.

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I think so. Just trying to make sure to ask around before spending a bit of time and effort machining bits to hold the bits, as it were.

tjd10684 said:

The issue you might end up with is the switching remotely. these things use digital commands to interface between a flight controller and the camera/recording unit. I'm not sure how you want to remotely start or stop recording. if your wanting to do it with a radio you will probably need to put a flight control board in the list of electronics just so it can interface between the rx and the recorder unit.

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I am very likely still to ignorant to speak properly about any of it, but it appears that there are at least a couple standalone "modules" acting as a DVR, alone. No transmission of video signal. That's all I want. I am hoping that someone, somewhere has one that allows for remote start/stop of recording.

Please ignore the cheap nature of the examples. It is what I have been able to find by searching with my limited knowledge and vernacular so far. However, the feature examples are very relevant.

This is one example of video with remote start/stop capability.
https://www.amazon.com/WP-T186/dp/B...ra+remote&qid=1598027573&s=electronics&sr=1-3

Another -
https://www.amazon.com/Coomatec-Sup...7QHWK66YPYQ&psc=1&refRID=EYXXD4ZMP7QHWK66YPYQ

Even if it were an add-on type of thing, I've got to think that someone else has wanted remote stop start of video DVR on their drone, before...

Still, if I have to, I can remote wire the switch to be more accessible ( for now ) and deal with that part later.

Some of the other questions I have are related. What EXACTLY are the names of the components that I seek? If I purchase one of the packages, are things like lenses relatively easily replaced for better units? Is the lens the limiting factor in the video quality? Or, is that a matter of the DVR? So many questions... Google stays up all night, too. But it's somewhat shy of relating actual experience.

Thanks.

<EDIT> - Also, what's more important? 4K vs. 1080P? Or 30FPS vs. 60FPS? I'm not clear on these things, yet. </EDIT>

not clear do you need the drone or not? Fixed wing should have longer endurance then helicopter type.
Bill D

Bill D said:

not clear do you need the drone or not? Fixed wing should have longer endurance then helicopter type.
Bill D

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Nope. Nothing but the camera/dvr system. Just so happens that drone types of these fit the application I'm working on seemingly well. so I thought to ask those that use them and have experience with them. Thanks.

DJI Mavic 2 pro has probably one of the best cameras of the tiny drones:
DJI – Mavic 2 – Grossglockner - YouTube (select 4k quality from youtoobs)
Miami by Drone in 4K - DJI Mavic 2 Pro - YouTube

I don't have Mavic 2 nor gopro but Mavic 2 makes some pretty impressive videos

How about one of those snake cameras sold for home builder use. They are a camera and a screen probably with a standard video output jack. They make similar to inspect sewers. I think they make them small enough to go inside n spark plug hole.
Bill D

https://www.zoro.com/ridgid-inspect...MI_ZzJwOOs6wIVFBx9Ch2UQgqiEAQYBSABEgKv5vD_BwE

Bill D said:

How about one of those snake cameras sold for home builder use. They are a camera and a screen probably with a standard video output jack. They make similar to inspect sewers. I think they make them small enough to go inside n spark plug hole.
Bill D

Quality Borescopes - Flexible & Rigid Options | Zoro.com

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Thanks for the thought, but the ones that I have used ( and have ) do not have very high resolution/quality video, nor the ability to capture much of it, either. Willing to be wrong about either. Inspection cameras seem to rarely need that level of resolution. Plus, they're simply huge in comparison. The idea here is to get MUCH smaller than a GoPro ( per my OP ) and every inspection cam I've seen is magnitudes larger.

There are several small wifi camera options out there. I bought an Ai Ball, but I haven't set it up yet so I can't say whether or not it's any good.

Some of the "nanny cams" are pretty small too. This one has SD card slot and battery powered, but it's not 4K.

DOI Ball Nanny Camera with Night Vision

My LG G7 phone camera is about as compact a hardware package as I have seen yet capable of taking very high resolution up close AND distant shots and videos. I would look at that technology. Heck, buy a used phone and tear it apart and see what you can hack together.

motion guru said:

My LG G7 phone camera is about as compact a hardware package as I have seen yet capable of taking very high resolution up close AND distant shots and videos. I would look at that technology. Heck, buy a used phone and tear it apart and see what you can hack together.

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Phone camera modules would have unbeatable quality/price but buying them is not necessarily easy. Manufacturers are secretive about the interfaces and minimum order could be 100k..

Taking apart existing drone or cellphone and re-packing the internals to suitable form factor would be "easiest"
Even then it's going to be lots of fun and you can change your name from Zahnrad Kopf to Electronics Freak just to extend the phone module connection cable.

Check out for example this Basler dart - Area Scan Cameras as can be seen they are available with different interfaces and resolutions. Fit a M12 lens (M12x0,5 trhread interface) off our choise and be ready. This or similar is whats normally used.

/Staffan

Zahnrad Kopf said:

,,,,,
<EDIT> - Also, what's more important? 4K vs. 1080P? Or 30FPS vs. 60FPS? I'm not clear on these things, yet. </EDIT>

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More information on the application would help.
Do you need color, are things moving fast, how do you plan to get the video out of the camera?
FOV, standoff, triggered or just user stop/start. Flat field or distortion ok? Global or rolling shutter? Low light, lots of light? Glare? Cost limits? Size limitations?
Zip knowledge here in drone cameras but I have some time spent in machine vision and process monitoring.
If not wanting to say the whats here you could call and I'd be glad to share my limited knowledge.
Maybe this is a deer camera, more info on the squirrels or coons invading, or maybe this is watching over a gear shaper and it's tooling.
Since the want to record I'm thinking not real time but event time recorded may count?
I have ruled out the nose of a missile as there is no recovering local stored data from that camera even if it did drive you though the front door or living room window.

Without know what needs to be done it is really hard to say options on things like camera type, resolution and speed.
Lens change easy. The goto in design your own or off the shelf is Optics - Imaging - Photonics - Optomechanics - Lasers | Edmund Optics
Bob

Your right people do have remote start and stop for their drone. The problem that your going to run into using drone tech is that the developer assumes you have a receiver connected to a flight control board that then controls your camera, recorder and video transmitter.

That sounds like its a bit much for what you want to do. especially if your trying to go cheep.

It sounds like what you want is something like an IR remote thats just on or off. My first thought would be to use an arduino to generate the start and stop signal biased on the input from an IR receiver. I did some google fu and found a couple mentions of people trying to do this but it quickly went out of my depth. Suffice it to say though no one was giving the posters answers like it was an easy common operation.

As far as lenses go. Most of the fpv cameras do in fact use the same lens as a go pro already so the lens is not an issue for quality and they are easy enough to get replacements. For image quality they all pretty much use a sony sensor its the firmware on the chips that make the decisions on how to use the hardware that make the most difference. I think the 2 main competitors now are runcam and caddix they pretty much have parallel product lines. Both are probably more than good enough so I would say get the one that comes in the color you like and run with it.