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    Texas bow hunter, I replied to your pm 3x, my board says I didn’t send anything.. send me a pm with your email so I can respond.

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    Default Just weighing in!

    Quote Originally Posted by ADFToolmaker View Post
    Hard to know for sure without more detail, as stated above, but your description is consistent with the tool centre height being too high. Experiment with slightly different centre heights and take note of what changes. Work with what you can change before buying new tools. Unless the tool and/or lathe are absolute junk you will be able to make them work eventually. If your standard blade is not working a t blade or carbide probably wont either.
    In Addition, If the blade is grabbing reduce the cutting clearance at the front of the blade.

    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogertoolmaker View Post
    In Addition, If the blade is grabbing reduce the cutting clearance at the front of the blade.

    Roger
    So ADFT saying go lower (more clear) and you say go higher (less clear).
    This confusing.
    Bob

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    Yep tool grind,speed and feed, material outside hardened crust, rigidity, and any number of things.

    I will say that I have never used a belt sander to grind a tool. Good grinding wheels and surface grinders are for that. I do most of it by hand and keep my grinding wheels in good shape. I am ver patient and keep tool steel cooled as I go along as a matter of long term habit.

    Good to see someone finds a good lathe and then goes through the learning process - that is what happens. I would enjoy piddling around with lathe and mill. So many different priorities and projects of which I have which currently have fun with.

    I would want the lathe and mill adaptable and tooled out adequately and that means money. I suppose like everyone else it can go gradually and so to do that machine selection is important as to accessories are concerned.

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    All of the above, plus: if yer gonna use HSS you might have better luck with the thickest blade you can stand. I switched to 3/32 blades ground with a bit of an angle and that worked a *lot* better than the straight, flat 1/16 blades.

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    i quit messing around with hss parting tools long ago, because i couldnt afford them. if you brake a blade its $30-100. it might be diffeent in the states, but here decent hss blades are not available any more, only hobby-stuff. i know a guy who is making thousands of tiny parts on some nc-machine. he is scrounging up old hss bits and grinds them himself. he sais quality hss stock is way too expensive.

    i have four sizes of the tool i posted. i use nothing else and cant remember having broken an insert. sometimes, when some tool steel hardens on me, i walk to the grinder and give the insert a fresh, sharp edge. the only drawback i see with these might be a somewhat limited reach, but do we really have to part off 5" and larger? i use the saw for the last part of the cut.

    and no, the tool doesnt have to be "razor-sharp". honing the edge? no way, i need work to be done.

    edit: as murray mentioned, the machine does not have to look good or have new paint, but there are three tings to look for: bellmouthed chuck, "tilting" compound and lifting carriage. you know, since i scraped in the compound 20 years ago, i can part off with a 4mm bit on my 500 lbs 3-in-1 without issues. then there is the "gooseneck" holder.

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    A 7 degree front angle and a 15 degree across angle will be ideal for this material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    A 7 degree front angle and a 15 degree across angle will be ideal for this material.
    ....and NO radius on the top edge (like from a belt sander....)

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    HuFlungDung always has practical observation's, including possible chucking problems.
    Using heavier machines, a little blade height deviation is hardly noticeable until the end of the cut.
    I have used some really crappy lathes, old, worn, bad bearings, and Atlas, one thing that seems to help with less then great lathes, is speed up the spindle!
    It really seems on lighter, or worn out machines higher speed often helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickyb View Post
    Texas bow hunter, I replied to your pm 3x, my board says I didn’t send anything.. send me a pm with your email so I can respond.
    Don't do that, he got all 3 . To save space the PM site does not keep your "sent" messages for you to view. But they are sent.

    Your inbox is limited to 50 messages too I believe, for the same reason.

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    Funny! my in box has 562 unread messages, always best to do internet communication's right on the forum!
    On the other end could be a "dip shit tin star" with a hand full of balloons!
    Looking right at you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Funny! my in box has 562 unread messages, always best to do internet communication's right on the forum!
    On the other end could be a "dip shit tin star" with a hand full of balloons!
    Looking right at you!
    Pity yah learnt to type but are too messed-up throwing donie-drama-queen fit-s**ts and ROLLING in them to be BOTHERED to read, ain't it?

    World wudda been a happier, QUIETER place if only it had been the reverse.

    Family had known sooner, they could at least have found you a better grade of comic books to pattern your life off of?

    All part of life's bitch travesty, one supposes? Guess you'd have to understand reincarnation? Better luck next time.

    Oh. By the by. Seems there's a progression to it. You'll be starting over to climb the ladder. As a virus. Before being promoted to bacteria, flatworm.... etc.
    Familiar ground, yah?

    You can do this.

    Just take a nine-dollar Russian scraper with you and prepare to conquer the universe.

    All over again.

    "Payback" thing.

    Yer overly toxic to raise tomatoes anywhere near safe to eat, y'see.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texasbowhunter View Post
    the belt grinder I used is a 2 x 72 belt grinder...the type the knife builders use
    I use the flat platen when sharpening the edge and attempt to keep it just as square to the face of the belt as possible...
    I will get the grinder out from the shed and use it and see if this will help...
    It has crossed my mind as to whether or not the belt would leave abrasive material in the face of the HSS tool or not
    Nothing seemed to be definitive...But Ill try and rule out this denominator...
    thanks
    Paul
    Paul? A BELT sander.. will NEARLY ALWAYS "nano-round" .. if not VISIBLY round ... the most critical area. The ultimate EDGE of the parting blade.

    Not just "usually". Every damned time. ANY hard, fixed-dimension grinding wheel will NOT do that.

    And then?

    If HSS, or even "HCS" (High Carbon Steel) you really do need to fine-finish that edge with a diamond hone or a decent hard Arkansas stone.

    At which point... a salvaged Black diamond FILE.. or a broken Power Hacksaw blade.. can part-off slick as you please.

    The OTHER part of the "secret"?

    SUPPORT!

    It has to be near as dammit FULL.. and directly below the tip ...if not actually slanted or curved to put support FURTHER inboard (towards the center of rotation) than the tip is it itself.

    IOW, not "short overhang". NEGATIVE unsupported overhang. It's a LATHE. The work ALWAYS curves away UNDERNEATH the line of cut. Put that reliable situation to ADVANTAGE!

    Because .. parting.. admits of ... less than ZERO downward tool deflection.

    That simple. All else follows as to tool shape "etc."

    Absent that UNFORGIVING tool POSITION ...as the "jacks or better for openers"?
    You will forever be playing b****y Hell even getting into the game. Carbide magic or never.

    Put it where is has to be. Stiffen it up! So it STAYS there.

    Or just turn a positioning GROOVE. Run slow. Stroke it to completion .... with hand-held hacksaw.

    Sound like a redneck monkey patch? Dambetcha that is EXACTLY what it IS!

    Also works well .... every time ... too



    CNC . or an old Hard-dingey hanging on half a century past its prime running balls-to-the-walls "production"?

    Struggling to beg 3 Mike Foxtrot CENTS on each of several tens of thousands of "parts"?

    Spend the money. Nail your parting-off to DEAD NUTS accurate ... and as solid-reliable as phoney grief in a big-shiddy funeral parlour.

    No second op spend required.

    Because CNC folk have no other option in CNC's cuthroat competing-vampires cycle-time world. Nail it in one go. First time, every time, ALL the time. Or lose "real money".

    Hobby shop? Why mess? Buy decent hacksaw blades. PLAN a second-op for cleanup.

    It's faster than a never-ending experiment on a lathe that might not even be able to HOLD your best shot.

    "I picked a clean Clausing 12 x 36 Clausing 5930 series lathe .."

    Not a BAD lathe... but.. "clean" ain't the same as "like new, with EVERYTHING TIGHT", is it? And then there is your choice of toolpost?

    Can you even "Get THERE from HERE"?

    Not easily. Not on steel solids.

    Hollow-bored arredy and thinwall tubes, surely. Preferably NOT "steel", even so.

    TANSTAAFL

    Run what you got.

    Not what you only WISH it was.
    Last edited by thermite; 04-03-2021 at 09:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    i quit messing around with hss parting tools long ago, because i couldnt afford them. if you brake a blade its $30-100. it might be diffeent in the states, but here decent hss blades are not available any more, only hobby-stuff. i know a guy who is making thousands of tiny parts on some nc-machine. he is scrounging up old hss bits and grinds them himself. he sais quality hss stock is way too expensive.

    i have four sizes of the tool i posted. i use nothing else and cant remember having broken an insert. sometimes, when some tool steel hardens on me, i walk to the grinder and give the insert a fresh, sharp edge. the only drawback i see with these might be a somewhat limited reach, but do we really have to part off 5" and larger? i use the saw for the last part of the cut.

    and no, the tool doesnt have to be "razor-sharp". honing the edge? no way, i need work to be done.


    edit: as murray mentioned, the machine does not have to look good or have new paint, but there are three tings to look for: bellmouthed chuck, "tilting" compound and lifting carriage. you know, since i scraped in the compound 20 years ago, i can part off with a 4mm bit on my 500 lbs 3-in-1 without issues. then there is the "gooseneck" holder.
    Honing the edge takes 5-8 seconds, then you get faster cutting, a much better finish, and it lasts longer. “No way” I’m not doing it, it saves time. I often hand hone carbide inserts when turning Al, same results.
    Of course you do a proper grind first, and leave a slightly excessive relief so that you are only honing half a millimeter it so bring it to the correct angle.

    A belt sander can be used to good effect if you are careful. A super sharp belt 50-80 grit, run slow, don’t use a flat platten use a 3” 4” contact wheel for a parting blade, use the radius to get a hollow grind, touch up the edge with a fine diamond hone, couple of strokes on a hard Arkansas stone.

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    I can't add much to the already good tips, but will tell you that myself as well as most any machinist starting out has a heck of a time getting the parting off drama right.

    After doing it so long if I have a one off only I grab whatever is closest throw it on eyeball and part off.
    No problem ,however that doesn't mean that I haven't made a quick mental check of all the critical parameters(and correct any that are wrong) before I start the cut and when one of the new guys sees that and tries it ,crash!

    I also have quite a collection of internal external grooving and parting tools HSS and indexable and when doing multiples of close tolerance work you bet I take the time to get every thing right.

    Point is a year from now you will wonder why it was so much of a problem. Experiance counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    Honing the edge takes 5-8 seconds, then you get faster cutting, a much better finish, and it lasts longer. “
    Honing here I will take a some sort of sharpening?
    Honing to a cutting tool maker is a radius on the cutting edge. Sort of dulling it. Comes in many sizes and flavors.
    Pure rad, waterfall, tapered rad, combos...

    I do know many say hone mean to up sharp edge but to me is asked for it is a radius or dulled. We grind it sharp and then hone it if needed.
    Is the original grind not sharp?
    Are you putting a better use on the top with a stone? If so is the actual edge or the top tool surface that gives better results?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If HSS, or even "HCS" (High Carbon Steel) you really do need to fine-finish that edge with a diamond hone or a decent hard Arkansas stone.

    At which point... a salvaged Black diamond FILE.. or a broken Power Hacksaw blade.. can part-off slick as you please.

    The OTHER part of the "secret"?

    SUPPORT!

    It has to be near as dammit FULL.. and directly below the tip ...if not actually slanted or curved to put support FURTHER inboard (towards the center of rotation) than the tip is it itself.

    Run what you got.

    Not what you only WISH it was.
    Believe it or not -- some of the best, lo-budget parting blades I ever had, was made from a carbide-tipped circular saw blade. The kind you can find at the lumber yard or hardware for $7. And I got 40 blades out of it Just cut up that saw blade the right way...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavt View Post
    Believe it or not -- some of the best, lo-budget parting blades I ever had, was made from a carbide-tipped circular saw blade. The kind you can find at the lumber yard or hardware for $7. And I got 40 blades out of it Just cut up that saw blade the right way...
    ROFL!

    And here I thot I was a "master scrounger" making cutting tools out of bustid PHS blades, files, broken drills and taps...back when I wuz still only off of barefoot-poor due to a five-dollar pair of steel-toads and similar safety glasses the Company Store kept to-hand in the toolroom - and took outta my first paycheck!

    To be fair? Reasonably comfortable, and damned decent quality, considering the low cost. Mind.. the Foremen got theirs same place, so they'd not have HAD them shiddy! Plant Manager, Adam S... a serious bright guy AND all his Foremen had come up off the shop floor, so I'd not be surprised he even subsidized the cost. Seemed to be the same dam' steel-toad the US Army and Navy issued for those MOS as required them, too. Oxygen /Acetylene cylinder handling, for example.

    Once traded a pair of rare-size forklift tires to 25th Infantry for two pair of size FIFTEENS to suit a six-foot four SGT I had!

    Funny as Hell.

    Two Straight-Leg infantry SGTS roll up in an M-151, ask for SGT W__.

    "Off today, what have yah got?"

    "Two pair of size-fifteen steel-toed boots, Lootenant. Just as a favor."

    "Fuck that. I wore stripes before bars. What did Jim promise YOU?"

    "Ah, forklift tires, Lootenant?"

    "Ralph? Guys are here for the tires. Roll 'em out!"

    ...and "Brown Shoe Army" had found another way around two more silly little supply barriers.. not just the one...


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    I'm just a hobbyist, so what do I know? Well, I know I had problems parting with various types of tooling until I picked up an Aloris Cut-off & Grooving Holder. No more problems. It does not cut well when centered, it works best when slightly below center. Experiment to find what works best for you.

    Aloris BXA-71 | Cut-off & Grooving Holder - All Industrial Tool Supply

    I also use a syringe to drip oil into the groove as it cuts, and I hand feed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    I'm just a hobbyist, so what do I know? Well, I know I had problems parting with various types of tooling until I picked up an Aloris Cut-off & Grooving Holder. No more problems. It does not cut well when centered, it works best when slightly below center. Experiment to find what works best for you.

    Aloris BXA-71 | Cut-off & Grooving Holder - All Industrial Tool Supply

    I also use a syringe to drip oil into the groove as it cuts, and I hand feed it.
    Yah, surely. "Slightly BELOW center", load comes on, tool-tip drops a skosh MORE.. and the work sucks the backlash right outta the leadscrew & nut on the cross and you gets a nasty crash, too.

    30-inch or so wore to flinders Niles, heavy steel shaft, I'm left hand on the feed clutch, right hand on the McCrosky, leanin' my skinny 145 lb ass back HARD to hold the f**ker as if managing a team of Brabant plow horse to a brakes-locked hard "Whoa!" And we had NOT started the cut "slightly below center". JUST enough above that it took POWER to catch the bitch and haul 'er down, 'coz by that stage in life, you knew every one of them old lathes just as well as one more wore-out old pair of undershorts.

    Wait for it. Undershot parting tool will grab your ass "in the fullness of time", too.

    I hadn't had the luxury of learning that out of no dam' book!


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