physics problem

M. Roberts · Jul 6, 2021

Good morning, people...how was the Holiday?
I am not sure if this is the proper place to post this question, my apologies if it isn't.
Ok, if a 3.25" diameter tool (in this case, the tool is a diamond plated grinding wheel), rotating at 3000RPM,( in a HAAS VF-3), and traversing thru the work piece at 30 IPM, how fast is the swarf/chips moving as it leaves the tool? Make sense?

Thanks,
Mark

thermite · Jul 6, 2021

M. Roberts said:
Good morning, people...how was the Holiday?
I am not sure if this is the proper place to post this question, my apologies if it isn't.
Ok, if a 3.25" diameter tool (in this case, the tool is a diamond plated grinding wheel), rotating at 3000RPM,( in a HAAS VF-3), and traversing thru the work piece at 30 IPM, how fast is the swarf/chips moving as it leaves the tool? Make sense?

Thanks,
Mark

At 3,000 RPM?

Not really, it does not make sense, no. "Vanilla" as far as a hundred years and more of wheel RPM on all manner of grinders, grits, and materials, long-since.

As such things go, it is too trivial to bother with re-invention. Well-known techniques for protection, deflection / diverting, "capture" even, "JFW".

Now.. at 20 THOUSAND RPM?

Same answer.

"Find the experts" as to the equipment.

Mankind has been dealing with HSM and it's associated realities for more than just a day or three, already. Goods to deal with all of that are not scarce.

"It's an INDUSTRY". And folks who serve it do so to pay their bills. So solutions "exist". Already.

"Purchase Order" problem. Or DIY adaptation of proven goods.

The "physics" have already been done.

Screwmachine · Jul 6, 2021

The periphery of the wheel is going about 29 mph, so the swarf would be around there, a bit less.

jz79 · Jul 6, 2021

starts at wheel cutting speed dia*rpm, and then decelerates quickly because of the air resistance

michiganbuck · Jul 6, 2021

Ops, the wheel is traveling way too slow about 2600 surface feet per metric minute, running in imperial minutes might be a little butter, but likely not.

Diamond wheels should run at 6000 surface feet or more per minute regardless of the orientation because sex should not be included as a factor in stock removal, chip exit speed, the type of coolant, or heat generated to the part being ground.

To accomplish this the grinding wheel would need to rotate at an RPM in only one specific direction at one given time, as rotating both ways at the same time would be detrimental to the structure of the bond and might cause failure.

In theory, based on Fig Newton if the grinding chips' speed got just past the speed of light they could be diverted through a flux encabloator and produce lower-cost energy that would be cloud-based transmitted and so no longer needing wires, poles, or birds. Doves are often a common bird to rest on wires but likey with the absence of wires they could find another place to rest.

With that said the energy would no longer be called electricity, It would be called electriworld.

DDoug · Jul 6, 2021

michiganbuck said:
In theory, based on Fig Newton if the grinding chips' speed got just past the speed of light they could be diverted through a flux encabloator and produce energy.

Operating much like a breeder reactor....

Breeder reactor - Wikipedia

thermite · Jul 6, 2021

michiganbuck said:
Ops, the wheel is traveling way too slow about 2600 surface feet per metric minute, running in imperial minutes might be a little butter, but likely not.

Diamond wheels should run at 6000 surface feet or more per minute regardless of the orientation because sex should not be included as a factor in stock removal, chip exit speed, the type of coolant, or heat generated to the part being ground.

In theory, based on Fig Newton if the grinding chips' speed got just past the speed of light they could be diverted through a flux encabloator and produce lower-cost energy.

With that said the energy would no longer be called electricity, It would be called electriworld.

UNfortunately.. since the enca-BLOATER's have been sworn-in to pubic orifice?

Entropy has gone into reverse, if not also "overdrive".

And the costs of everything have increased, violet crimes included.

How many remedial lessons in exponential stupidity do humans really NEED?
Ermmm... might be best to not even TRY to answer that?

Aleph null and "C' are hard enough numbers to deal with, arredy..

boslab · Jul 6, 2021

Exit peripheral speed of tool (m/min over here) deceleration hard to quantify by me, not others btw, the chip has a kinetic energy, depends on size, KE = 1/2mv superscript 2 ie 1/2mass x velocity squared, then it gets funny as it moves in a trajectory like a shell from a gun, gravity takes over all in all its a complex problem, air movements, drag all that fun stuff, I’m glad I’m not in college anymore but sad because it made me do odd things I’d never do otherwise, I’m sure you’ll figure it, if all else fails measure the furthest chips away and call it good, I do know that the inside of a machine gets sandblasted good when grinding, I read a thing online about tilton wheelabrator machines for media blasting, they use a great big pelton wheel to sling bits at castings, they had info on thier site about velocity of the media
Mark

DDoug · Jul 6, 2021

It's really quite simple... :crazy:

michiganbuck · Jul 6, 2021

Fortunately, if the cost of everything goes past the money we have then things won't be selling and so the price will come down.

If Amazon can't move products out of their whale house they would need to build bigger where houses or start giving products away, perhaps they will give free delivery and pay us to take the products.

Big B · Jul 6, 2021

thermite said:
At 3,000 RPM?

Not really, it does not make sense, no. "Vanilla" as far as a hundred years and more of wheel RPM on all manner of grinders, grits, and materials, long-since.

As such things go, it is too trivial to bother with re-invention. Well-known techniques for protection, deflection / diverting, "capture" even, "JFW".

Now.. at 20 THOUSAND RPM?

Same answer.

"Find the experts" as to the equipment.

Mankind has been dealing with HSM and it's associated realities for more than just a day or three, already. Goods to deal with all of that are not scarce.

"It's an INDUSTRY". And folks who serve it do so to pay their bills. So solutions "exist". Already.

"Purchase Order" problem. Or DIY adaptation of proven goods.

The "physics" have already been done.

You could have saved a lot of typing by just typing "I have no idea".

M. Roberts · Jul 6, 2021

Wow people; I see that some are still feeling the effects of a long Holiday weekend. Regardless, thanks to all for the head scratching, whimsical thoughts, and useful information...

Mark

michiganbuck · Jul 6, 2021

Oh my goodness, you were steerious with that question. hoo woodah thought that.

In that case, note that the speed of light is relative to which way you are looking because by the time you look the other way what you are looking at may be gone.

Scottl · Jul 6, 2021

The circumference of a circle is pi x diameter. (3.14159 x diameter)

One you know that you can calculate the surface speed of the wheel and that is the theoretical STARTING velocity of chips and swarf. The velocity of those will decay over distance and the lighter the particle the quicker it looses velocity.

At 3,000 rpm the inches per minute feed is essentially so small by comparison that it is insignificant.

DDoug · Jul 6, 2021

M. Roberts said:
Wow people; I see that some are still feeling the effects of a long Holiday weekend. Regardless, thanks to all for the head scratching, whimsical thoughts, and useful information...

Mark

GiGo....Garbage in, Garbage out

Or "learn how to compose a better title"

Madis Reivik · Jul 6, 2021

Simple assumption: diameter*Pi*rotation per second = linear velocity

But during grinding, there are particles which are compressed and receive MORE energy, so there may be some particles that are FASTER.

As the particles are small and there is probably cutting oil involved - then I dont think they travel very far.

And remember - twice the speed means 4 times more energy in particles.

P.S. Thermite why do you post mindless mumbling in every topic ?

fciron · Jul 6, 2021

Do you need this information for a reason or is it just idle curiosity?

You'll get better answers of you tell us what you're trying to do rather than asking for a statistic that is irrelevant to most practical applications.

CarbideBob · Jul 6, 2021

How about if feeding at 1000 IPM? Even very old surface grinders can do this.
Part of why cnc mills do not do so well in flat grinding.
Would this matter? A change on the climb and conventional stroke?
Why do many grinder people like the infeed on one direction only?
In super high feed side cut milling is this something on cut direction? Is surface footage at exit gained or lost?
I like to thing way out of the world extremes in such. Gone to the crazy land, if surface footage on cutter equals feed rate what happens?

I think this a sort of physics theory question and exit speed is before or without air drag or coolant flow so not real world and the grinding speed could be 200 RPM for the question.
Bob

thermite · Jul 6, 2021

Madis Reivik said:
P.S. Thermite why do you post mindless mumbling in every topic ?

It is my way of assisting humanity in general to cause those too stupid or - far more often - simply TOO LAZY - to trifle themselves to understand things, rather than burden their fellow man.

Pass or fail is up to you, not me.

...because I am supremely lazy... as a profession.

It was what built the best TEAMS when others were wont to "micro-manage"!

thermite · Jul 6, 2021

CarbideBob said:
How about if feeding at 1000 IPM?
Would this matter?
Bob

The poor noob has an ignorant commodity wheel on a commodity CNC machine-tool at dirt-common speeds and feeds. The Haas enclosures JF deal with that stuff all day, every day, at the "usual cost" of degraded PAINT. A(ny) media-blast booth has to work harder for its crust.

This is not a "very BIG DEAL!"

How about booking time on a Tokomak.. or the large HADRON collider at CERN .. if you really want to explore a "Physics Problem"?

physics problem

Cast Iron

Diamond

Titanium

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Attachments

Diamond

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

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