Please identify this knurl..

Opportunist · Sep 21, 2018

I am new to this site and this is my first post. So, if I do something wrong, let me know.

I am new to machining but was brought on by my dads company to handle business development. So far so good.

I have an opportunity to do some work and cannot figure out the textured surface. Is it a knurl?

A little technical info:
- All Dimensions are Metric
- 100.50mm Diameter Over Textured Surface
- 420 Stainless Steel Material
- 15mm Overall width

JRIowa · Sep 21, 2018

I wouldn't call it a knurl. Hard to say without knowing what it's used for. If you're looking at having one made, it's expensive.

420 stainles is usually heat treated, no heat treat specs.
No finish specs anywhere. If it has to be ground, the price just went up.
No tolerance shown.
Don't know what the bore is and any GD&T info.
Probably not something "off the shelf" at Fastenal.
JR

henrya · Sep 21, 2018

Ask the people you are going to make it for. What is it? What and how is it used?

Conrad Hoffman · Sep 21, 2018

Download Eagle Rock's knurl catalog and see if there's something similar in there. 420 will be a pain and I'd be reluctant to bump knurl it- use a clamp type tool instead. Don't know if you can cut a pattern like that.

Opportunist · Sep 21, 2018

JRIowa said:
I wouldn't call it a knurl. Hard to say without knowing what it's used for. If you're looking at having one made, it's expensive.

420 stainles is usually heat treated, no heat treat specs.
No finish specs anywhere. If it has to be ground, the price just went up.
No tolerance shown.
Don't know what the bore is and any GD&T info.
Probably not something "off the shelf" at Fastenal.
JR

It is for some type of heating roller. That's all I know about its use.

We would be machining the raw material prior to heat treating. I am not aware as to whether they will heat treating or not.
The only finishing specs it calls out is removing burs and breaking all corners and edges.
Tolerances are: (X +- 0.5) (X.X +- 0.3) (X.XX +- 0.10)
The center bore is 16.50 - 16.55

Hope this helps, sorry for the lack of info in the original post.

Opportunist · Sep 21, 2018

Conrad Hoffman said:
Download Eagle Rock's knurl catalog and see if there's something similar in there. 420 will be a pain and I'd be reluctant to bump knurl it- use a clamp type tool instead. Don't know if you can cut a pattern like that.

I will look into this. Thank you!

LockNut · Sep 21, 2018

JRIowa said:
I wouldn't call it a knurl. Hard to say without knowing what it's used for. If you're looking at having one made, it's expensive.

420 stainles is usually heat treated, no heat treat specs.
No finish specs anywhere. If it has to be ground, the price just went up.
No tolerance shown.
Don't know what the bore is and any GD&T info.
Probably not something "off the shelf" at Fastenal.
JR

I agree with JR. That can't be a knurl with those grooves running across the width of the part. I have an idea, purely dependant on quantity and tolerance. The shape can easily be turned in a CNC lathe. I would have a hobbing cutter made and hob that part in a live tool CNC lathe. Again, only worth it in quantity, but would probably be pretty easy. We do hobbing all the time in our lathes.

Paul

eKretz · Sep 21, 2018

Looks to be a texture similar to a knurl but would have to be cut to be kept in line like it's spec'd.

litlerob1 · Sep 22, 2018

henrya said:
Ask the people you are going to make it for. What is it? What and how is it used?

I don't understand these types of questions. And usually I hate the Machinists asking them. Why does it matter what it's for? Can you make it or not? Try asking Rockwell Collins or Lockheed "what's it for?" it doesn't matter.

R

crazygoat · Sep 22, 2018

litlerob1 said:
I don't understand these types of questions. And usually I hate the Machinists asking them. Why does it matter what it's for? Can you make it or not? Try asking Rockwell Collins or Lockheed "what's it for?" it doesn't matter.

R

I had to ask those questions a lot. But I was usually working on a beat to hell or busted up part. Not so much if I had a real print to work off of.

litlerob1 · Sep 22, 2018

crazygoat said:
I had to ask those questions a lot. But I was usually working on a beat to hell or busted up part. Not so much if I had a real print to work off of.

When your NOT working form a print, AND you customer is Joe Farmer with a busted Widget, then you need to ask that question. But if the print is right in front of you, it seems to me like it's just trying to figure out a way to do it, and superseding the print. IMO

R

Illinoyance · Sep 22, 2018

That pattern looks like a set of grooves contoured into the OD followed by milling or hobbing yo create the cross grooves.

DDoug · Sep 22, 2018

"Heating roller"

I wonder if for a heat sealing machine.

john.k · Sep 22, 2018

Looks like a part that would be very easy to underquote on,and end up with a massive reject pile and the manager tearing his hair out.

DDoug · Sep 22, 2018

john.k said:
Looks like a part that would be very easy to underquote on,and end up with a massive reject pile and the manager tearing his hair out.

Yup, could be this is a job for the local tool & die shops, EDM job.

Could be the mating part has to be timed very tight to intermesh with this
one, and provide a very accurate output.

crazygoat · Sep 22, 2018

I don't believe it is a knurl at all. The view in detail H is a the end product of the 2 radii, one being convex and one being concave. I don't have the appropriate software to draw it it up to support my belief, though.

jz79 · Sep 23, 2018

litlerob1 said:
When your NOT working form a print, AND you customer is Joe Farmer with a busted Widget, then you need to ask that question. But if the print is right in front of you, it seems to me like it's just trying to figure out a way to do it, and superseding the print. IMO

R

just recently I was anodizing a batch of small parts, 6082 aluminum, around 10x20x4mm with a pocket in the middle, 0,5-1mm wall thickness left, and this tiny box had a cover, some dimensions aprox, 500 pieces each, talked to the guys that made them to the print, and they had to use 4 setups for each piece, just because there were sharp cornered cutouts at the narrow ends of the parts if you look from above, and the thing is - if those cutouts were drawn with a radius, the pieces would require only 2 setups, and this radius wouldn't affect functionality of the part in any way whatsoever, you can guess how much the price per piece went up just because someone didn't think about this when he drew the part up

same goes for anodizing, I see parts that have blind/tapped holes that could have had been drilled through (I know for a fact that it wouldn't matter for the functionality of the part), it is easier for the machinist, it is MUCH easier for anodizer, because chemicals don't get trapped in small holes and ruin dye later on, worse if shaving gets trapped in a hole, and all this nonsense because of the clueless draftsman, it is not always the case, but the parts I see, like 90% of them have these "mistakes" that make the part more expensive to finish

so yes, you should question "weird" drawings, not always, and not in this particular case, but always working to a print no questions asked is just as bad as the guy who comes up with some odd features because he never ever had operated any sort of mill or a lathe, yet is called an engineer

litlerob1 · Sep 23, 2018

jz79 said:
just recently I was anodizing a batch of small parts, 6082 aluminum, around 10x20x4mm with a pocket in the middle, 0,5-1mm wall thickness left, and this tiny box had a cover, some dimensions aprox, 500 pieces each, talked to the guys that made them to the print, and they had to use 4 setups for each piece, just because there were sharp cornered cutouts at the narrow ends of the parts if you look from above, and the thing is - if those cutouts were drawn with a radius, the pieces would require only 2 setups, and this radius wouldn't affect functionality of the part in any way whatsoever, you can guess how much the price per piece went up just because someone didn't think about this when he drew the part up

same goes for anodizing, I see parts that have blind/tapped holes that could have had been drilled through (I know for a fact that it wouldn't matter for the functionality of the part), it is easier for the machinist, it is MUCH easier for anodizer, because chemicals don't get trapped in small holes and ruin dye later on, worse if shaving gets trapped in a hole, and all this nonsense because of the clueless draftsman, it is not always the case, but the parts I see, like 90% of them have these "mistakes" that make the part more expensive to finish

so yes, you should question "weird" drawings, not always, and not in this particular case, but always working to a print no questions asked is just as bad as the guy who comes up with some odd features because he never ever had operated any sort of mill or a lathe, yet is called an engineer

You don't read so we'll, I guess.

R

JRIowa · Sep 23, 2018

jz79 said:
but always working to a print no questions asked is just as bad as the guy who comes up with some odd features because he never ever had operated any sort of mill or a lathe, yet is called an engineer

Boy do you have an attitude for engineers. Maybe you should try it sometime. Making shit from a drawing is usually easier than designing it. Packaging equipment is the worst.
JR

Whysosharp · Sep 23, 2018

Who cares what the part looks like just because it’s easier to make it one way doesn’t mean you should. I could understand if you find an issue with a fitment because of a design issue but that’s different from something that works that you want to REV. To make your life easier. Last I checked most of the companies we work for don’t appreciate us requesting changes to be made for our sake. I think my favorite answer was “If I wanted it that way I would’ve drawn it that way”

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