Is it possible to make this simple, small steel cone? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Thank you for your response. I clearly overshot (or maybe undershot would be a better term) in projecting requirements. Tolerance and finish are really not concerns. The attached will prove helpful regarding the final application.smokestack-weather-guard.jpg

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    Thanks very much for taking time to respond. Yep, this is what you get when a software guy starts dabbling in stuff that is better left to the professionals who visit this forum! So for that I apologize. I should have made the application clear from the start--but I appreciate your point about "the end points of either h or z are drawn wrong". This diagram was created in Adobe Illustrator solely based on my vision of what I was looking for, and I'm learning that my perspective overlooks a lot of things that are important to machinists. In this case, it's just a weather hood for a BBQ smoker vent.smokestack-weather-guard.jpg

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    Hi, and thanks for your response. No, the OP (me) didn't know that such parts (even with liberal tolerances) are x00 $ parts. But, how do you know unless you ask. I may have made a bad decision by posting here based on my requirements--but I am amazed and respectful of the number of professionals who took time to look at this little thing and offer their feedback. I did spend a lot of time hunting on the Internet for places where such a part could be sourced, even if not exactly as spec'd (and given the amateurish nature of the measurements, e.g. actual endpoints). Just couldn't find anything that seemed to fit the bill, hence I posted here. See attached for application.smokestack-weather-guard.jpg

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    Thanks for your exhaustive response. I've quickly learned that the people who visit this forum bring a wealth of knowledge and machining expertise to this site. In truth, it's like I'm looking for a small glass marble for my daughter to play with and--no fault of theirs--most responders are thinking in terms of titanium bearings manufactured to tolerances of thousandths of an inch. Clearly my fault for not defining the application up front, and I'll certainly own up to the wrongness of saying "how" instead of "what". I actually deal with that all the time among customers requesting software solutions, so I know the problem. Here's some info that will probably make everyone go away from my little problem, but I thought I'd try since it was so hard to find the right, affordable cone solution on the internet: smokestack-weather-guard.jpg

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    Considering the application, I would reduce the metal thickness to 1/32 or 3/64. Much easier to form.

    Tom

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    Hi, and thanks very much for taking time to help me out in various ways here. Yes, I had already looked at Fabricor. Their spun solutions looked reasonably close, but before asking them for a quote on a closed-end spun cone (steel or stainless; needs to be welded to steel) I thought I'd take a probe in an online forum of people who might be aware of solutions I'd missed. That seemed like a reasonable approach. Whew... got my hands full for doing that. I've tried to go through all the responses and acknowledge each one; it is appreciated, though stinging in some cases, but virtually all the responders were thorough, accurate and insightful. I began the original post with "...my knowledge of machining is just short of pathetic..." and that was just plain honesty, not false humility. That message perhaps got lost somewhere along the way, but I understand this is a forum of professionals who work with exacting tolerances every daysmokestack-weather-guard.jpg. Perhaps poor judgment or just plain ignorance on my part to post here. Anyway, I'm still looking for two small cones, 1/16" steel, 4.5" across the base, coming to a full point, 90 degrees at the apex, no significant tolerance or finish requirements. I'll bounce this off Fabricor at your suggestion. Thank you again.

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    How well would 1/32 or 3/64 hold up under snow and ice in New England?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPike View Post
    How well would 1/32 or 3/64 hold up under snow and ice in New England?
    Unless you beat it with a hammer, quite well. To get a feel, go around to various shapes in steel and measure the thickness. Go to a hardware store and measure the rain caps on flue piping.

    Tom

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    A raincap for a stovepipe......2 @ $5000 each.....yep ,sounds about right to me ...

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    under snow and ice in New England?
    This stuff is not very demanding - a shallower angle would suit it just fine

    As to thickness, scroll down a bit for sheet metal gauges

    Sheet Metal Gauge Chart | Metal Supermarkets - Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Hot-Rolled, Cold-Rolled, Alloy, Carbon, Galvanized, Brass, Bronze, Copper

    I doubt that many of these "smaller ones" are thicker than 22 gauge

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    A raincap for a stovepipe......2 @ $5000 each.....yep ,sounds about right to me ...
    Never know unless you ask, right? The answer is: You can't one-off produce the steel cone as represented for five bucks, or even $40USD. But lots of folks on the forum have helped steer me toward a practical solution, and I appreciate that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    This stuff is not very demanding - a shallower angle would suit it just fine

    As to thickness, scroll down a bit for sheet metal gauges

    Sheet Metal Gauge Chart | Metal Supermarkets - Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Hot-Rolled, Cold-Rolled, Alloy, Carbon, Galvanized, Brass, Bronze, Copper

    I doubt that many of these "smaller ones" are thicker than 22 gauge
    Thanks for the Sheet Metal Gauge Chart! Also, this is partly "eye of the beholder" stuff, but there is a certain element of aesthetics in the design of the rain cap that another poster did pick up on (again this is a rain cap for a BBQ smoker with two smokestacks). The 90-degree angle is part of that; shallower angles somehow don't seem to give the "look". Funny that the literature which arrived with the smoker said "Smoking meats is both an art and a science." This little project to find two small steel cones is both as well!

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    If you cannot buy what you want I would make a cone with a small hole at the end and weld a tapered plug in at the end

    To bend the cone I would make a steel segment of the inner cone ( a bit smaller even ) and use that on a hydraulic press to get it into shape
    As a lower die I would use 2 round bars welded to some sheetmetat at a angle touching the cone over its full lenght

    Peter

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    Do a google image search for 'metal cone'. Lots of stuff comes up ready made.. mostly for the cooking world.

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    This project is probably a non-starter due to constraints of cost and requirements for design. I've looked at metal spinning options including off-the-shelf components for cost effectiveness, adapting stainless steel funnels, using existing flue cap products, other options and none seem to fit the bill, partially because of aesthetics. I'd rather get a solution that looks exactly as envisioned or do nothing at all, at least for now. I am still looking for the right solution but acknowledge it may never be found given the constraints. Anyway, here is a re-statement of the requirement. Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion; very educational for a software professional. Now I know who to thank when I buy a product with exacting tolerances that assembles perfectly--always a pleasure!

    smokestack-weather-guard-20191025.jpg

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    Back in the day when farm tractors had vertical pointing exhaust stacks, to protect the engine from rainwater, the farmer just put an old tin can on the stack.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Back in the day when farm tractors had vertical pointing exhaust stacks, to protect the engine from rainwater, the farmer just put an old tin can on the stack.

    Tom
    But that was back when we had real pride in our manufacturing. Our tin cans used to me made from real steel, nice and thick. Why, I believe the first US military tanks were designed using emergency requisitioned tin cans for armor plating...

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    Just to bring closure on this, I looked at many options, virtually all of them too pricey for a couple of rain caps on a $500 smoker (as has been stated by others).

    One poster found a 5.5" diameter "pulling cone" from a chimney flue company, used for pulling stainless steel liners up through flues.

    lindemann-5.5in-nose-cone.jpg

    It has a ring on top that would have to be removed with the spot weld areas ground down and smoothened, and the cylinder at the bottom would have to be cut off and the base of the cone ground a bit to bring the radius closer to the 4.5" I'm looking for.

    I began to look at this as the best option among many. There were offers of help which would put the budget at around $400 including two such cones, work required, and shipping. The best solution, I decided, was to buy the two cones from Walmart at $41 each with free shipping. I'll try cutting and grinding it myself (I believe it is 1/32"). If I get wedged, I'll try not to ruin the cones, and then take then to a local guy whose help I'll need anyway bending and welding the supports to the cones and the smokestacks.

    That's it, end of story. Thanks to all responders, the benevolent ones who provided really solid advice, the detail-oriented majority who rightly pointed up the many flaws in the drawings, and the pragmatic folks who didn't hesitate to describe the possible lunacy of this little project, given the potential cost. I think I'll end up with something very close to what I was hoping for at the outset--through perseverence and others' willingness to consider the objective. And I'll have an interesting story to tell, too, about small steel cones!

    smokestack-weather-guard-20191026.jpg

  23. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPike View Post
    This project is probably a non-starter due to constraints of cost and requirements for design. I've looked at metal spinning options including off-the-shelf components for cost effectiveness, adapting stainless steel funnels, using existing flue cap products, other options and none seem to fit the bill, partially because of aesthetics. I'd rather get a solution that looks exactly as envisioned or do nothing at all, at least for now. I am still looking for the right solution but acknowledge it may never be found given the constraints. Anyway, here is a re-statement of the requirement. Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion; very educational for a software professional. Now I know who to thank when I buy a product with exacting tolerances that assembles perfectly--always a pleasure!

    smokestack-weather-guard-20191025.jpg
    At what university do you hold tenure ?....

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  25. #40
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    Did you ask the guy who'll be making the brackets and doing the welding about making the cones?

    Seems like he already has the tools and materials.


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