OT; Hovmand Small Pail & Bucket Lifter Question

atomarc · Nov 3, 2020

Does anyone on this site own one of these battery powered lifters, or has anyone worked on one? I'm trying to figure out the mechanism inside the vertical tube that lifts the bucket or pail. They don't show the guts of the lifters which I guess is understandable.

Stuart

Bucket and small drum lifter - YouTube

Ray Behner · Nov 3, 2020

Stuart,
Just guessin' but maybe an acme thread.

atomarc · Nov 3, 2020

Ray Behner said:
Stuart,
Just guessin' but maybe an acme thread.

Ray,

Yes..that's whatc I figured and am going to use, along with some linear guides in my farbicobble version. The thing I'm stumped on is how their beam can cover all sides and the front, yet allow the bracket to be pushed up and down. From the pictures it sure looks like a custom extrusion, but for the life of me I can't draw a cartoon that covers front, back and sides, as it leaves nowhere for the acme driven nut/saddle thing to traverse up and down.

I was hoping someone has been inside one of these and could share a 'aha' moment to my feeble brain.

Stuart

dalmatiangirl61 · Nov 3, 2020

atomarc said:
Ray,

Yes..that's whatc I figured and am going to use, along with some linear guides in my farbicobble version. The thing I'm stumped on is how their beam can cover all sides and the front, yet allow the bracket to be pushed up and down. From the pictures it sure looks like a custom extrusion, but for the life of me I can't draw a cartoon that covers front, back and sides, as it leaves nowhere for the acme driven nut/saddle thing to traverse up and down.

I was hoping someone has been inside one of these and could share a 'aha' moment to my feeble brain.

Stuart

I think the part that covers the front is just to keep fingers out. The ears on the bracket that go up and down is what connects to the nut. For a diy version I would use channel for sides, if you design bracket the same way use some flat stock to cover the front and back, on front you would have to leave gaps for bracket ears to travel in.

atomarc · Nov 3, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
I think the part that covers the front is just to keep fingers out. The ears on the bracket that go up and down is what connects to the nut. For a diy version I would use channel for sides, if you design bracket the same way use some flat stock to cover the front and back, on front you would have to leave gaps for bracket ears to travel in.

I agree. My quandary is that the front cover has to be unattached except at the very bottom and the very top, and my machine envisionment calls for a beam 80" tall, and I'm afraid that much front cover just dangling is not going to be very sturdy.

I've drawn a 100 cartoons and I cannot find the magic way to do it...maybe I'm just dumb. I think I'm missing something basic.

Stuart

dalmatiangirl61 · Nov 3, 2020

atomarc said:
I agree. My quandary is that the front cover has to be unattached except at the very bottom and the very top, and my machine envisionment calls for a beam 80" tall, and I'm afraid that much front cover just dangling is not going to be very sturdy.

I've drawn a 100 cartoons and I cannot find the magic way to do it...maybe I'm just dumb. I think I'm missing something basic.

Stuart

Make front cover out of heavy sheet formed like a C channel, that should make it stiffer. Looks pretty simple, I can scratch draw something if you want.

Winterfalke · Nov 3, 2020

So make your front cover a box or triangle beam instead of a sheet. Nothing says you can't make it deeper. Or if you want to be fancy, use two screws driven in parallel. Or it could be cable or chain actuated, one on each side. Many ways to solve that problem.

atomarc · Nov 3, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
Make front cover out of heavy sheet formed like a C channel, that should make it stiffer. Looks pretty simple, I can scratch draw something if you want.

Thank you. As I draw little pictures I think I'm making headway. I'll see how things go.

Stuart

atomarc · Nov 3, 2020

Winterfalke said:
So make your front cover a box or triangle beam instead of a sheet. Nothing says you can't make it deeper. Or if you want to be fancy, use two screws driven in parallel. Or it could be cable or chain actuated, one on each side. Many ways to solve that problem.

Yes..it could be a box or triangle shape to gain some rigidity through its length..thanks.

Stuart

magneticanomaly · Nov 4, 2020

two parallel roller-chain loops, drive at bottom, idlers at top?

Rob F. · Nov 4, 2020

I was thinking this more like a duct hoist that uses a cable and winch to raise/lower the load.

Unlike a duct hoist that goes up 25' this could just be a capstan winch with each end of the cable attached to top or bottom of the carriage that goes up/down.

atomarc · Nov 4, 2020

That is my quandary..what's inside the factory unit that raises and lowers the bucket. My current plans call for an acme screw, but even a chain or a timing belt still needs a bracket of some sort that goes from bottom to top which means it still needs clear space around it. The mechanism to raise and lower it isn't the problem. My quest is to not overlook some very obvious and simple method that Hovmand has discovered and I have not.

If this project comes to fruition, I'm going to post build pictures, for better or for worse.

Stuart

dgfoster · Nov 5, 2020

atomarc said:
That is my quandary..what's inside the factory unit that raises and lowers the bucket. My current plans call for an acme screw, but even a chain or a timing belt still needs a bracket of some sort that goes from bottom to top which means it still needs clear space around it. The mechanism to raise and lower it isn't the problem. My quest is to not overlook some very obvious and simple method that Hovmand has discovered and I have not.

If this project comes to fruition, I'm going to post build pictures, for better or for worse.

Stuart

I do not think I see any clues that this is a dual acme thread (my first thought) for raisiing and lowering the load. So, that leaves some flexible load bearing material that can be bent over a very small radius. I think the small radius which looks like it would have to be 1/2 to 3/4" pretty much disqualifies all but very thin cable and even chain would need idlers that would be crammed into such a small space. So, I am thinking dual straps like woven nylon or glass-reinforced straps would be an ideal choice. Steel thin straps could be used too. Their advantage that they could be very thin, actually need to be very thin, and so could be wrapped on more compact drums. I am guessing relatively thin dual nylon woven straps.

Arguing agains the acme threads is the fairly long box at waist level that contains the lifting mechanism. If it were an acme mechanism it could be half or less in height. But winding drums, motor, and timming belts would require more volume to accommodate, I think. Also against the acme and chain ideas is cost.

I have to admit that this post is a collection of not necessarily defensible musing. Just throwing it out there like we were all sitting around a cafe table drinking coffee, drawing on napkins, and hashing this out. Well, I am presently drinking coffee....

Denis

GregSY · Nov 5, 2020

However they do it, they can't be very smart given that they don't even know how to draw the letter 'A'.

surplusjohn · Nov 5, 2020

how about a toothed belt, the belt rides inside a section of 80-20, carriage rides on outside of 80-20, belt passes over the top over a idler and back down inside the back channel in a loop, driven by a motor in the base, it seems like this would give a faster cleaner and quieter lift. the loads are not great and well within toothed belt capacities.

atomarc · Nov 5, 2020

surplusjohn said:
how about a toothed belt, the belt rides inside a section of 80-20, carriage rides on outside of 80-20, belt passes over the top over a idler and back down inside the back channel in a loop, driven by a motor in the base, it seems like this would give a faster cleaner and quieter lift. the loads are not great and well within toothed belt capacities.

Wow, great idea. I looked at the 80-20 catalog and they have some very ingenious aluminum extrusions, thanks for the tip.

Stuart

john.k · Nov 5, 2020

Might be simpler to find a spares list for the lifter......do ,however be careful about copying patented stuff still under protection.....lotsa greedy lawyers about.

dalmatiangirl61 · Nov 5, 2020

Watched vid again, I think the long box on back is just controls and battery, smaller box at bottom is the dc motor driving the acme screw. Use C channel for sides, build a carriage similar to a forklift that can ride in channel with the acme screw driving it.

If you are interested in copying (for your own usage) would it not be possible to find an exploded view, or just present yourself as an interested customer and inspect one.

atomarc · Nov 5, 2020

dgfoster said:
Also against the acme and chain ideas is cost.Denis

HUH! A 6 foot acme rod in 5/8"-10 is under $35 dollars.

Stuart

john.k · Nov 5, 2020

Ive no doubt a Chinesium drum/bucket lifter /tipper unit using just such can be bought for under $200....No caveman needs to chip a wheel out of stone,when he can order a Chinesium one on the 'bay or the 'Zon

OT; Hovmand Small Pail & Bucket Lifter Question

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