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price fluctuations on a 2MT dead center and live centerss ? ?!

1dogandnoexes

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
The price fluctuations on a seemingly simple item like a high speed steel 2 MT shank dead center for a manual lathe are the wildest I've seen so far for tooling. I'll be turning (center to center)some very small and simple replacement parts on a manual lathe. Material will be 1018 steel and or stress proof, as other members recommended. Prices start at about $10.00 and go all the way to about $150.00 or maybe more for a dead center! Is there a reason for this?

The same also seems to be somewhat true of live centers, which is more understandable because the assembly actually has some parts to it. Does the brand matter? If it does, can some recommend a brand? Should I buy a live center used?

I'm trying to work to tolerances of .001" and would like to purchase U.S. manufactured items if possible. I want heirloom quality tools that will be passed on to the next generation.

Thanks in advance.
 
It's hard to mess up a dead center and I wouldn't spend a fortune on one. Sooner or later you'll have to regrind it anyway. Only big choice is carbide tip or not. Every now and then you can find a pretty good import live center for cheap, but if you want a guarantee, you buy a good one. I can't justify the spendy ones. You can also make either but I can't believe it's worth anybody's time.
 
For live centers my best ones are made by Royal. The better one is a "High Precision Quad Bearing". The other is one from their "Value Turn" line. The prices today are what I would consider outrageous unless you're using them for high volume production. The "High Precision one now lists for over $700.00, and the Value Turn is in the $300.00 range. I don't think I paid a third that much when I purchased mine over 20 years ago. The good news is that with 20 years of service they're both still like new.

Riten centers are also very popular. They're a bit less expensive than the Royals, but still up there in price. I have no experience with them, but I do see them in several shops in the area.

Another brand you might consider is Skoda. I have a couple MT2 and MT3. They aren't quite as nice as the Royals, but can certainly be expected to hold well within the tolerances you're speaking of. They're about 1/3 the price of the Royals, and seem to hold up well over time.
 
QT:[I'm trying to work to tolerances of .001"]
I think you are lucky to get .001 with a live that runs at .0003 error.

Description:

#3 Morse Taper (3MT) shank, 60-degree point
0.0003" Concentricity
4000 Max RPM
Hardened to 61-65 Rockwell

I think .0003 is like a mile for a live center.. $25 or $30 out the window.
I used to regrind lives and ones with a internal wobble (China and the like) are hard to make much better than junk at new..

I guess they are made with a chucker grinder with a .0001 to .00015 error so give up to .0003 Concentricity,
The right way to make them is between centers/a female center at one end is fine..out of the best chucker/collet will never work.

Most often a name brand live that turns smooth can be point ground in place with not tear down and get to .00005 or so. you need apply load at the point when grinding..

Deads can be ground between centers or suspended off bearings to the shank. What ever the error live you get double that error in the part.

Deads don't matter if heal dead..but put in any revolving spindle they become live. Ground in that spindle they become true until they are taken out.
 
Diggerdoug: No, I don't use 2MT bits. I got a shot at three excellent condition Albrecht drill chucks, one for the mill, one for the DP, and a sensitive feed chuck for whatever. I stayed with round shanks for drilling, which bits I already had.

The photo of the lead screw is what I want to turn, which is why I need the 2MT dead center, so I can turn center to center. I'd like to do it correctly and do it once.

BTW, I broke a drill bit once and the part that stayed in the drill went into my finger.:eek:

Projectnut: thanks for the info, the royal price of the Royal dead center is part of what motivated me to ask. I don't need anything of that quality, but would like to avoid alloys that include political dissidents. I'll check out the Skodas.

Here's an excellent video of a very similar part using the "stressproof" alloy that another member recommended. YouTube


I've included a photo of the DP I mistakenly passed up. The table design is from Walker Turner, which I think is an excellent design, and it has a geared lift. If any has one for sale reasonably close (say 150 miles) to Arlington, VA, please PM me. After covid is over, of course.

Thanks all, may your drill bits not break and may you be you free of covid.
 

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Diggerdoug: No, I don't use 2MT bits. I got a shot at three excellent condition Albrecht drill chucks, one for the mill, one for the DP, and a sensitive feed chuck for whatever. I stayed with round shanks for drilling, which bits I already had.

The photo of the lead screw is what I want to turn, which is why I need the 2MT dead center, so I can turn center to center. I'd like to do it correctly and do it once.

BTW, I broke a drill bit once and the part that stayed in the drill went into my finger.:eek:

Projectnut: thanks for the info, the royal price of the Royal dead center is part of what motivated me to ask. I don't need anything of that quality, but would like to avoid alloys that include political dissidents. I'll check out the Skodas.

Here's an excellent video of a very similar part using the "stressproof" alloy that another member recommended. YouTube


I've included a photo of the DP I mistakenly passed up. The table design is from Walker Turner, which I think is an excellent design, and it has a geared lift. If any has one for sale reasonably close (say 150 miles) to Arlington, VA, please PM me. After covid is over, of course.

Thanks all, may your drill bits not break and may you be you free of covid.

Your supposed to GET a mt-2 bit, grind off the junk, and then chuck it in your LATHE (that you still won't explain) and MAKE your own dead center.

It's done every day.

The DP has nothing to doo with this thread.
 
I can't think of a worse reason to buy an "heirloom quality" machine tool so that one can pass it on to future generations. That has to be the poorest investment of all.

1) Who are these future people? Unknowns, or family?

2) How many countless times have we seen some mook trying to get rid of his grandad's old tools that he first has to even identify, with the plain statement that he 'has no interest in any of this stuff?'

3) Many tools of today will be near useless in 75 years. A dead center might well be useful, but it's a lump of steel. Nothing anyone in going to get overly excited about one way or the other.
 
I've broken lots of drills, but never an MT one. Probably because I only own a couple and they're big. I put a tiny mark on my dead centers so they can be put in the spindle the same way every time. My live center is an inexpensive import where I just happened to get lucky. It runs better than 0.0005", which is usually good enough.
 
Dead centers and a spot of white lead made dead on parts.

It is a shame we don't have white lead because the Grubberment thinks we are not smart enough to wash out hands..and that we still suck our thumb.

Much like our Grubbenor who thinks we are not smart enough to go fishing in a power boat.
 
Michiganbuck: Thanks for replying re the live center.
"What ever the error live you get double that error in the part"
Do you have recommendation for a well made reasonably priced 2MT live center?
 
Is there a reason for this?
Surely. "Fitness for a purpose". Quality at delivery OF that.

Yah need "both", actually. And/or a comfortably priced regrind service. One - or more - of our PM Members does that.

I buy the ten-dollah Chinese DC for use, abuse, discard for a fresh one, no tears.

Riten or Stark for anything where precision counts. Read "measure and correct" sumthin' more often than for serious turning.

Same again "live" center. Inexpensive "set" with swappable tips for handy, plus at least one top-brand for serious working. Do you need "spring" action or adjustable force, built-in? It adds to the cost. Greatly so. But is worth it for SOME users.

IOW the "variation" has sound reason. Yah pay for what yah get, the difference is "real", so it isn't capricious nor abitrary.

"Heirloom"? DC at least are "consumables". That would be like expecting to onpass a set of tires or disk rotors for the Jaguar.

Wrong items to consider as candidates for immortality. Just Deal With That, run what yah NEED, and "preserve" something more readily "preservable".

Odds are your lathe, overall, probably, and your tailstock almost certainly are waaay TF further off-line and off-spec than even a cheap Chinee DC will be.

Fix that - or arrange to "compensate" for it - ELSE the best-made centres on planet Earth will still appear to let you down.
 
What you get when you buy a quality dead center is the knowledge that it is most likely accurate. When you buy a cheap dead center you might get a good one or you might get a lousy one. It's less of a crap shoot to buy a quality one, in other words.
 








 
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