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Matt_50

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Hello, I need some advice and help from the experts out there.

I have reached out to a couple of machinest for a quote for a custom tap. They are requesting that I provide a print/drawing of the part. Can anyone help me out on how to provide one? I'm willing to learn a new skill but I'm not sure on thicknesses, tolerances, metal type etc.

This wood be a wood threading tap. 2.5 OD. 2 TPI. Has anyone here made one before?

Matthew
 
You have two issues...you don't know how to make a drawing and you don't know what the drawing should say.

A draftsman can make the drawing, an engineer can tell you what it should say.

As always, you can do both yourself if you educate yourself a bit.

A wood tap is odd in my world...so I'd first talk to someone who has made them. I'd guess you need to specify a high speed steel material, plenty sharp, and with lots of chip clearance.

As for the drawing...you can make it yourself on a piece of paper or there are a number of guys who work behind a CAD screen all day and don't mind making a drawing on the side for a few bucks. Look on Craigslist or Facebook under CAD services.
 
Hello, I need some advice and help from the experts out there.

I have reached out to a couple of machinest for a quote for a custom tap. They are requesting that I provide a print/drawing of the part. Can anyone help me out on how to provide one? I'm willing to learn a new skill but I'm not sure on thicknesses, tolerances, metal type etc.

This wood be a wood threading tap. 2.5 OD. 2 TPI. Has anyone here made one before?

Matthew

If you know exactly what you want it wont be very expensive if you don't you can pay for the expertise. I could make your tap but I'm pretty expensive ( you'd be competing with high paying chemical plants for my time). If you need what you need when and how you need it and can either charge the expense back to your customer, amortize the cost over many parts or just have more money than you know what to do with shoot me a pm. We can get together and I'll help you finalize a design based off of your needs. A job like this will cost $500 minimum, fyi.
 
A few things...

First. When you need something that is specialized like a custom cutting tool (A Tap),
you DO NOT go to a regular old machinist. You go to a place that makes taps. Google
up "Custom made taps", or "cutting tools" or something.

Second thing. You DO NOT need a drawing.. Its a fricken tap. That's like saying I need
a drawing for a simple washer, no, I don't, I need 3 numbers and some tolerances. You may
need a drawing if its some sort of custom thread form, for any standard thread form, you
do not. 2.5"-2

And that brings me to another point. What is the thread form? UN? Acme? Buttress?
If you know your thread form, there *shouldn't* be a problem. But simply 2.5"-2 is not
enough information.


And now I have a question. How good is a tap going to work in wood? Maybe a really hard
fancy wood, but anything I've ever worked with, I think it would just rip it apart. I've
wooden screws, but never thought about how they would effectively make the female version...

And then back to point #1. Do you really need a fancy HSS tap, with all the properly ground
clearances and reliefs that would be needed for reliable and effective work in metal? Would a piece of
prehard 4140 threaded and then gashed be good enough for wood? In which case a regular machinist
might be your best bet.
 
Yes! I just dug up a similar older picture. See attached. I would need a V shaped thread 90 degree. Standard? Acme style would break.

I wouldn't mind teaching myself how to draw this up but I'm not sure where to start.
 

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Yes! I just dug up a similar older picture. See attached. I would need a V shaped thread 90 degree. Standard? Acme style would break.

I wouldn't mind teaching myself how to draw this up but I'm not sure where to start.

why would you need to draw it though? Get your hands on a copy of the Machinery's Hand book https://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-29th-Erik-Oberg/dp/083112900X , choose a thread form and away you go.

Like bobw said "And that brings me to another point. What is the thread form? UN? Acme? Buttress?
If you know your thread form, there *shouldn't* be a problem. But simply 2.5"-2 is not
enough information."

You don't need to learn cad and make a drawing to get new tires on your truck and you certainly don't need to to order a tap, even a custom one.
 
As near as I can tell, taps for threads in wood, are usually the same as taps used for metal work. This is not universally true because special threads are often designed for specific purposes. For instance, things like screw on handles for paint rollers.

I would be happy to do a drawing for you, but I would need some information first. I could just do it to a standard thread form with the nominal numbers that you already stated: 2.5" x 2 TPI. But that would be a gamble as this is not a standard thread or even a non standard one in a very good list of available tap sizes that I checked. So I would really want to know just what you plan to screw into the holes this tap will thread in wood.

Heck, if you are willing to provide enough information AND are willing to take financial responsibility for any failure to communicate that information properly, I and most people here, can just make the tap you need without a drawing.

The reason why those shops wanted a proper drawing is because they want to be PAID for their time, even if the tap you asked for does not work for what you are doing. I would want that same guarantee from you if I made the tap or even if I made just the drawing. If it does not work, then that must be considered your fault for not properly conveying the needed information and you must assume all financial liability for both the wrong tap and any additional ones that are made in an effort to get one that does work. In short, you pay for all efforts made and for all shipping, both ways if a return is needed. This is why they want a proper drawing/print. It gives them a way to say that they made it to YOUR drawing/print and any problems with that drawing/print are your fault, not theirs. So you DO owe them the agreed upon price, even though it does not do what you wanted.

BTW, a 2.5" x 4 TPI is an available tap. You won't like the price, but they are available.
 
I suggest that you tell us more about what you are actually doing. It is all in the details.

I looked at that German site you referred to. Those tools look more like a thread forming tool and not a thread cutting tool. They do not appear to have any cutting edges, only a "tapered" thread at the first, starting thread position. So they are acting like a normal wood screw, they just push the wood fibers out of the way: they compress them instead of cutting them.

This could be problematic in wood because this compressing of the fibers will produce a lot of stress in the wood. Even if you are several inches away from a side, the wood could easily split along the grain lines. If you have any choice at all and if the mating part is not wood, I would really recommend a finer thread, within reason, the finer the better. As I said, 2.5 x 4 is available:

McMaster-Carr
 
The first thread in those two examples tapers. It starts small and gets to the 2.5 OD on that first thread. It starts to cut part of the waste away right away. Then once it is at the full OD it cuts the rest.

Wooden vise screws and nuts is what I want to make. But I need a tap to make the threadbox/die.

I collected some pictures. There is also one from a 1950 popular mechanic's that shows how it cuts twice. Do these help?

60 degree thread works but 90 is better for wood.

I'd gladly pay someone here once the details are figured out.
 

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The pictures I posted before are similar or are antique Peugeot style, which I prefer. But here are a couple homemade taps I have come across that look to work well. What I like is the 2 inch OD at the end of the tap that can fit into the pilot hole and have a straight start.
 

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The first thread in those two examples tapers. It starts small and gets to the 2.5 OD on that first thread. It starts to cut part of the waste away right away. Then once it is at the full OD it cuts the rest.

Wooden vise screws and nuts is what I want to make. But I need a tap to make the threadbox/die.

I collected some pictures. There is also one from a 1950 popular mechanic's that shows how it cuts twice. Do these help?

60 degree thread works but 90 is better for wood.

I'd gladly pay someone here once the details are figured out.

If the tap is to make the die, and the die is metal with a vee-gouge insert to do the cutting, then the tap design, whether 60 or 90 degree angle, needs to be designed to cut metal.

Look at Beall, who make a very nice wood thread cutting tool set, but not as large as 2.5 inches. They use a router to cut the screw and a tap designed to cut wood to make the nut. The router bit cuts beautiful threads, better than a die with a gouge bit. You could do worse than to buy a Beall tool and have a larger copy made.

The Beall Tool Company

Larry
 
Threadbox is wood with a metal cutter inside. Large ones have two cutters. Here are a couple pictures of a similar box.
 

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Would this be an easier example for someone to make?
 

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