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Pros & Cons of starting off on a Monarch CY16 (18.5x30" 5HP) lathe

*D'B=6bk

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
I was in the market for a typical Home Shop Machinist lathe as my first tool but came across a deal on a 1944 Monarch CY16 that I couldn't turn down. So now she's sitting in my garage on skids.

I have no specific intended use planned out, I'm just a mechanical/controls/robotics/systems engineer that likes to get my hands greasy.

Other than the space it takes up and electrical power, and assuming the tool is generally in decent shape, are there any pitfalls for owning/operating this lathe vs. a newer, smaller lathe?
 
Its a real lathe that weighs a little less than 5000 lbs. It is one of the GREAT machines made by Monarch. It even has lead screw reverse on the apron. Probably won't be as "fast" as a el cheapo modern thing, so you just get to make do with the older ways

What else is there to say?

I guess a little safety smarts will be in order - it has at least 5 HP (and later 7 1/2 HP) and can take off your arm in an eyeblink

You got POWER for this thing? It will need three phase of course

Sort of related pub:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17622.pdf

If you ARE new to all this - you need to seriously digest ALL the conceptual content in a pub like this

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/5795.pdf
 
Lead screw reverse lever is absolute awesomeness.

Yes - it almost makes up for the pathetically small spindle bore.

I have 2 complaints about my Monarch CY lathe - the small spindle bore and the low top speed (490 rpm on mine).

I can fix the slow top speed, the spindle bore, not so much.

But they're really great lathes and mine has the taper attachment that masses more than a toy South Bend lathe all by itself......

PDW
 
You need to start with watching some "lathe accident" videos on youtube, that should give you some respect for the machine:eek:. Way back in school my choice was the little SB with slipping belts, or the huge old WWII surplus Monarch, I choose the Monarch, did something stupid one day, still gives me the willies thinking about it today, just got hurt a little bit, could have been so much worse. Think about every move you make before doing it, and have some fun.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years and have been around a couple of amputations and a fatality due to rotating equipment. But watching some of those videos still gave me a new respect for lathe work.
 
Great first machine. And yes this is not a toy, treat it with respect and you'll be fine. I ran one of these along with plenty of others for many many years. One of my favorite small machines - although I fully agree with the small spindle bore gripe - however, back in the day when this machine was made that wasn't any different than many other machines on offer. Monarch made some fantastic machines. Unlike Cincinnati, who made some awful ones... in one shop I worked in we had a 5" Cincinnati floor traveling hbm that everyone hated. I still remember the graffiti on that machine these 25 years later - "If Cincinnati made an airplane, would you fly in it?" :D To be fair, they also made some good ones.

I'm sure you're aware of all the safety issues with these machines if you've been around them, just remember it's a different class of machine than your high school shop and what might have caused a little damage with those machines now has the potential to kill. (Do NOT leave the chuck wrench in the chuck, etc.) Anything you think "maybe I can get away with it just this once" is also a red flag. Like for instance polishing with emery wrapped around a shaft past 180° etc. Don't.

Newer machines will have that larger spindle bore and higher RPM, but most of them will be worn out hunks of junk while the Monarch is still plugging along producing high quality parts and finishes.

This machine has the potential to work just about as fast in terms of MRR as a newer machine but you'll have to approach it in a different fashion. Newer machines are geared more toward very high speed and lower DOC and feed. These CYs will do better at lower speed but with larger DOC and feed. Change your grade of tungsten carbide accordingly. My "standard" "heavy" roughing cut on these was about ⅛" - 3/16" DOC per side and .018" feed per rev at 250-280 SFM. In 4140 Q&T. The Monarch would rip off steel at that pace all day long if necessary.
 
Not familiar with that specific model, but the only disadvantage I can see to starting with a first class machine is that on the small tool-room lathes like South Bend, Logan, etc. that most people start with, you don't have all the extra options and capabilities to "spoil yourself" with, so you get a healthy dose of understanding the basics of how tool geometry, speeds and feeds all work together to make a cut. You have no choice but to get things right to avoid chatter and such. On a much nicer more rigid machine, The added mass and smooth operation might soften the blow when your parameters are a little off.

Honestly though, it's kind of a first world problem.... Next you'll be telling us how your employer keeps giving you 3 foot "drops" of tool steel and your wife wants you to set up the lathe in your living room....
 
You need to start with watching some "lathe accident" videos on youtube, that should give you some respect for the machine:eek:. Way back in school my choice was the little SB with slipping belts, or the huge old WWII surplus Monarch, I choose the Monarch, did something stupid one day, still gives me the willies thinking about it today, just got hurt a little bit, could have been so much worse. Think about every move you make before doing it, and have some fun.


You can't leave us hanging like that!

What'd you do?!?!
 
Pictures! We want pictures! We want lots and lots of pictures!

David

Pictures as requested:
Monarch Photo Album


U6mixQ7.jpg
 
From what we can see IMO that's a fair looking tool :)

Tip ;- Cutting the number of belts to 1 or maybe 2, and setting them to run slack, …….may give you a little bit of a ''safety net'' in the event of you doing something silly etc etc etc, while learning to drive the beast.

P.S. Nice dog :) ...…(no need for me to warn you about swarf (chips) and dogs feet not mixing - is there ;)
 
From what we can see IMO that's a fair looking tool :)

Tip ;- Cutting the number of belts to 1 or maybe 2, and setting them to run slack, …….may give you a little bit of a ''safety net'' in the event of you doing something silly etc etc etc, while learning to drive the beast.

P.S. Nice dog :) ...…(no need for me to warn you about swarf (chips) and dogs feet not mixing - is there ;)

Thanks for the advice. You likely saved both me and the dog a good deal of discomfort.
 
Great first machine....

This machine has the potential to work just about as fast in terms of MRR as a newer machine but you'll have to approach it in a different fashion. Newer machines are geared more toward very high speed and lower DOC and feed. These CYs will do better at lower speed but with larger DOC and feed. Change your grade of tungsten carbide accordingly. My "standard" "heavy" roughing cut on these was about ⅛" - 3/16" DOC per side and .018" feed per rev at 250-280 SFM. In 4140 Q&T. The Monarch would rip off steel at that pace all day long if necessary.

Not having a way to power the 5HP 3-phase motor yet, and wishing to preserve my current marital/financial status, I was thinking of swapping the 5HP with a cheap 3HP "farm-duty" motor running through a reduction belt-drive just so I could play around and make a few chips until I do get a means of powering the lathe properly. Any thoughts on this? I realize I might be quite limited on what I could do, but I figure with a gentle hand on the clutch and minding my feeds and speeds I could at least play around for a bit. Or is this just pissing on my leg to stay warm?
 
Set machine for highest speed to polish a shaft, placed one hand on chuck as I reached over and hit the start switch, it slammed my hand into ways, then started grabbing skin on backside of my hand to suck it thru the 2" gap between chuck and ways.

Ouch!!

I have one of those injuries on my right hand while I was holding the chuck key and my left hand accidentally flipped the drum switch on dad's 9" SBL lathe at ten years old. He had just converted the pulleys to run on a poly groove belt or the old leather belt would have just slipped off. The 1/4 HP just sat there clicking on and off until dad reached over and turned the drum switch off. One lesson well learned and still sets with me 53 years later. Establish a place holder for your chuck key and and use it! I was lucky and saved by the 1/4 HP motor.

Ken
 
Not having a way to power the 5HP 3-phase motor yet, and wishing to preserve my current marital/financial status, I was thinking of swapping the 5HP with a cheap 3HP "farm-duty" motor running through a reduction belt-drive just so I could play around and make a few chips until I do get a means of powering the lathe properly. Any thoughts on this? I realize I might be quite limited on what I could do, but I figure with a gentle hand on the clutch and minding my feeds and speeds I could at least play around for a bit. Or is this just pissing on my leg to stay warm?

I would not swap motors, or slow it down any more than it already is. An old 7.5 or 10 hp motor will make a good idle motor for a RPC, you can buy a control box for under $500 or do rope start and some balance capacitors for close to free. Much info on differnt types of RPC;s on here. You could probably run the RPC and the lathe off your dryer outlet. If is a 50 amp no problems at all, 30 amp maybe, but I would try it.
Looks like a great lathe, I have one of its cousins, 16cw. :D
 
I would not swap motors, or slow it down any more than it already is. An old 7.5 or 10 hp motor will make a good idle motor for a RPC, you can buy a control box for under $500 or do rope start and some balance capacitors for close to free. Much info on differnt types of RPC;s on here. You could probably run the RPC and the lathe off your dryer outlet. If is a 50 amp no problems at all, 30 amp maybe, but I would try it.
Looks like a great lathe, I have one of its cousins, 16cw. :D

I have a 60A 220V welding outlet near the machine fortunately. I'll definitely look into the DIY RPC option.
 








 
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