PSA- Beware of bar ends

Cole2534 · Sep 23, 2020

Get a call the other day from a good customer, he wants to reorder some parts we've done before and he'd like them soon. Sweet! Stock is on the shelf, soft jaws are done, programs are all validated and I got plenty of tools so let's rock. Setup parts (4, 2 in each vise) need no tweaks so this is going great, and I run (4) more.

Next run, part #1 pulls out and trashes a fresh 1/2" 5fl, well shit. Start over with new stock in hole #1 and then part #2 pulls out and wrecks another 1/2". Huh? Repeat with fixtures #3, 2x and I'm down 4 end mills with 7 parts on the table. This is absurd! WTF?!?

The damn bar ends (1144 stressproof) were somewhere between .010 and .017" undersized. I'd my cut setup parts with remnants from the last batch, as well as parts 1-4, come parts 5-8 I'm just grabbing from the pile at the bandsaw and just by chance putting an undersized part in. No matter how tight the vise was, one was loose so it'd pull into the cutter during facing and then that all to familiar whirrrrr...WHIIIRRRRR....TINK!

So there I am, limping through the run with a tool missing flutes 3 & 4 at 50% speed. Partly because I'm tired of breaking $60 tools, and partly because I'm now leery as hell of the setup.

I also broke a Haimer tip and dropped my ear phones in the coolant sump, I need a beer.

atex57 · Sep 23, 2020

Make that 2 beers and a cigarette. ;-)

Ed.

eKretz · Sep 23, 2020

We just had another thread about days like this.

Bobw · Sep 23, 2020

Maybe its the day. I ruined a casting (customer supplied) that I was going to get $375 for. The endmill need to be sticking out ten thou more.

And then an EASY one. Weld a washer to the end of a rod, turn and chamfer the other end, pop a hole.
I screwed up FACING A PART. Lets just say Mazatrol doesn't read minds. 1.15 is not the same as .15..
More material will be here tomorrow. It was a one off quicky that has turned out to not be very quick.

Positives. I had one of those $375 castings already finished, in stock (they shipped me a few extra castings once).

As for the rod. Well, it makes me feel like an idiot. This isn't "big" money($20 in the kitty, tops), local guy, cement mixer thing. He's done work for me at the house and a quicky at the shop.

I Couldn't FACE and CHAMFER a simple piece of barstock for him. But I did manage to make a prototype 10 degree bevel gear for him. How the F* can I not face and chamfer a piece of bar stock properly, but I can make a f'n oddball bevel gear? Just one of those days.

Bobw · Sep 23, 2020

atex57 said:
Make that 2 beers and a cigarette. ;-)

Ed.

5 empty's on my desk.. and NO I'm not driving.

wheelieking71 · Sep 23, 2020

New guy cost me $600 today in two 3/8" S-carbs, two SK16 collets, and one custom saw from AB Tools.
Stupid part loading mistakes. The trick is for me to turn it in to a positive, but also make sure he knows my consequences.
Keep him engaged and learning (from mistakes). But, not discouraged. How I feel on the inside today is nothing like how I'm acting on the outside :mad5:

Just glad I had another saw! Or I would be down. And, no fixtures got fucked up.
I really like this kid, so I need......well......this is touchy, LOL

I am headed to the corner for a 15pk when he is done for the day in 45 minutes. Kiss that goodbye............ :drink:

Cole2534 · Sep 23, 2020

Bobw said:
5 empty's on my desk.. and NO I'm not driving.

I'm about to pop number 1. The real issue is that's it's the only one in the shop...so I got that going for me?

atomarc · Sep 23, 2020

wheelieking71 said:
New guy cost me $600 today in two 3/8" S-carbs, two SK16 collets, and one custom saw from AB Tools.
Stupid part loading mistakes. The trick is for me to turn it in to a positive, but also make sure he knows my consequences.
Keep him engaged and learning (from mistakes). But, not discouraged. How I feel on the inside today is nothing like how I'm acting on the outside
Just glad I had another saw! Or I would be down. And, no fixtures got fucked up.
I really like this kid, so I need......well......this is touchy, LOL

I am headed to the corner for a 15pk when he is done for the day in 45 minutes. Kiss that goodbye............

You had a recent thread about your problems finding reliable help...looks like you haven't solved that problem yet. :eek:

Stuart

Milland · Sep 23, 2020

atomarc said:
You had a recent thread about your problems finding reliable help...looks like you haven't solved that problem yet.

Stuart

What?! The new guy has wrecked every tool he's been given - that's quite reliable!!

:cryin:

Ianagos · Sep 23, 2020

Well I feel much better about having a beer in the shop now. Typically guys around here want to criticize anything even a little unsafe...

Bobw · Sep 23, 2020

Ianagos said:
Well I feel much better about having a beer in the shop now. Typically guys around here want to criticize anything even a little unsafe...

When shit goes sideways. Me being able to have a "calming" beer means that everybody else is safe..... For NOW!!!

DDoug · Sep 23, 2020

Does the bar end appear saw cut or sheared ?

Cole2534 · Sep 23, 2020

digger doug said:
Does the bar end appear saw cut or sheared ?

Sheared...

Sent via CNC 88HS

wheelieking71 · Sep 23, 2020

atomarc said:
You had a recent thread about your problems finding reliable help...looks like you haven't solved that problem yet.

Stuart

C'mon now, everybody has to start someplace. This guy is green, fast food background. Were working on it.
I have a couple tricky (for a total newbie) part loads going on. He is doing good. I have made the same mistakes he did.

Bobw · Sep 23, 2020

wheelieking71 said:
C'mon now, everybody has to start someplace. This guy is green, fast food background. Were working on it.
I have a couple tricky (for a total newbie) part loads going on. He is doing good. I have made the same mistakes he did.

Its so hard sometimes. You want to kill 'em, but you can't because you did the same exact thing they just did.

I use it as a good opportunity for a "bonding" experience. They then know you aren't some narcissistic piece of shit.

You explain to them how and why you screwed up the thing they just screwed up, and then ask them to explain to you WHY they screwed it up. Or ask them first, but be willing to tell them why you screwed it up (or almost screwed it up). Then talk about it. I know thats touchy feely, and some people don't believe in that, but that is what gets you loyal and dedicated employees.

If I cost myself $100, I'm not happy. When somebody else costs me $100 it really pisses me off... But... its all part of the game, you can not do it ALL yourself(*I* can't [don't want to] do it all MY self). So you have to have other people do it, and with that, comes risk. Its part of the game.

triumph406 · Sep 23, 2020

It's a defining moment when you go from being an employee f'ing something up, to being the employer when somebody else fucks up. And you resist the urge to strangle them.

wheelieking71 · Sep 23, 2020

Bobw said:
Its so hard sometimes. You want to kill 'em, but you can't because you did the same exact thing they just did.

I use it as a good opportunity for a "bonding" experience. They then know you aren't some narcissistic piece of shit.

You explain to them how and why you screwed up the thing they just screwed up, and then ask them to explain to you WHY they screwed it up. Or ask them first, but be willing to tell them why you screwed it up (or almost screwed it up). Then talk about it. I know thats touchy feely, and some people don't believe in that, but that is what gets you loyal and dedicated employees.

If I cost myself $100, I'm not happy. When somebody else costs me $100 it really pisses me off... But... its all part of the game, you can not do it ALL yourself(*I* can't [don't want to] do it all MY self). So you have to have other people do it, and with that, comes risk. Its part of the game.

Hit the nail on the head Bob! Pretty sure you read that in to my initial post. I figured guys would "get it". Looks like one didn't?

pavt · Sep 23, 2020

triumph406 said:
It's a defining moment when you go from being an employee f'ing something up, to being the employer when somebody else fucks up. And you resist the urge to strangle them.

Makes me wonder what its like to have kids.

Now I'm gonna scare you guys (seriously)
Celibate by choice since 1997 and I quit drinking 12 yrs ago.
And I haven't killed anyone yet.
Yet.

Cole2534 · Sep 23, 2020

pavt said:
Makes me wonder what its like to have kids.

Now I'm gonna scare you guys (seriously)
Celibate by choice since 1997 and I quit drinking 12 yrs ago.
And I haven't killed anyone yet.
Yet.

Well since you haven't left home in 2 decades that'd be pretty hard to do.

thermite · Sep 23, 2020

Milland said:
What?! The new guy has wrecked every tool he's been given - that's quite reliable!!

I thot Stuart was talking about the OLD guy? Not the hired newbie?

My worst enemy is the same lazy-clever fool as uses my toothbush, shags my wife, and cusses me out from where he hides, 'tother side of the bathroom mirror.

Back to the start of this particular issue. Since WHEN was stock 100% on-size anyway?

Folks CHECK this s**t ...or pay the price.

"If necessity is the Mother of invention, assumptions are the Mother of all f**k-ups!"

Field First SGT "Willie" Williams had learnt it jumping into a "Bridge too far", 101st Airborne, War Two. Everytime I forget what he tried to teach us the month he retired, 1965, I gets the f**k-ups.

As promised.

Gotta give "Mother" credit for reliability, if nothing else.

PSA- Beware of bar ends

Diamond

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Diamond; Mod Squad

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