Pulling CSST through conduit...anybody done it?

snowman · Nov 21, 2016

So I've got 2" conduit from house to garage. Need a 3/4" CSST line in it.

The conduit is all the grey PVC...so it's got nice sweeping bends. Unfortunately though, it has 5 of them. The total run is 50 feet (actually a little less).

My dumb ass back filled before pulling. Actually, this was done because of the weather...it started pouring, and I expected my trench to collapse.

I thought it would pull easy...no such luck.

Bout to just run it on the surface then throw dirt on top of it.

So, any suggestions? I'm gonna go pick up a tub of lube tomorrow...and some better pull rope. If that doesn't work, I'm on to surface burying for the winter.

And before you ask, yes, running CSST in conduit underground is perfectly acceptable via code as long as it's appropriately bonded.

wippin' boy · Nov 21, 2016

glad I'm not doing it.
you never know till you try.
I'd surely have a good pusher along with the puller

metalmaster10 · Nov 21, 2016

wippin' boy said:
glad I'm not doing it.
you never know till you try.
I'd surely have a good pusher along with the puller

Yes, a pusher as well as maybe trying both folks doing some rotation. Not sure what you would fasten to the front to allow you to rotate while pulling, but worth a shot.

HuFlungDung · Nov 21, 2016

Don't know if it's ever been tried, but maybe adding a bunch of BB pellets to the generous lube coating might help the thing roll around the corners. What else is round and cheap: tapioca? Marbles?

I dunno, good luck.

Bill D · Nov 21, 2016

four bends you should have a pull box, good luck! I was told the lube is just soap. If all you have is the csst it should be doable.
Bill D.

Bill D · Nov 21, 2016

four bends you should have a pull box, good luck! I was told the lube is just soap. If all you have is the csst it should be doable. I would soak a rag in the lube and blow it back a forth a few times to lube the conduit in the middle and far end of the runs. Something like a webster should work with rope on each end.
Bill D.

Heavey Metal · Nov 21, 2016

Be sure to use a flat rope

Round will cut into the sweeps

adh2000 · Nov 21, 2016

Heavey Metal said:
Be sure to use a flat rope

Round will cut into the sweeps

I would never have believed this until it happened to me. I used 1/4" round braided polypropylene rope, often yellow in color. The stuff actually sawed slots into the sweeps, then everything jammed up in the slots. Total unbelievable PITA.

wippin' boy · Nov 22, 2016

I saw flat being used. figured it was a "cost down" who'd a thunk it

snowman · Nov 22, 2016

wippin' boy said:
I saw flat being used. figured it was a "cost down" who'd a thunk it

If I had even the slightest clue where my spool of seat belt material was, I'd use it hands down. As it is, I'm chalking this one up as an educational experience. Now I've got an extra conduit, which is never really a bad thing. I will just dig another trench...starting with the pick axe unfortunately since the ground has a crust now. I will have only one 90 degree bend now, and it will be made of two 45's to increase the radius. The riser 90's will be installed last, and very carefully, since I don't want the cement or primer getting on the CSST sheathing.

Milland · Nov 22, 2016

What a pain. I saw a reference to needing to cap and vent the conduit, does that jibe with your understanding?

stephen thomas · Nov 22, 2016

I've never pulled CSST. But pulling electric runs including the 4, 2/0 THHN 75 ft underground to my shop back when, I do/did the following.

Make the leading edge a pretty good streamlined ball/bullet shape with tape. Lube well including blow or pull a sock back and forth in the conduit if necessary. Then go to the exit end and hook a "whole bunch" of long (30") rubber bungees to the pull rope. Then go around to the starting end and push and twist. When the bungees grab and pull it a few feet, go back to that end and re-tension the bungees. With soap, you might literally say "lather"

rinse, repeat.

It takes a while on a long run but you can take breaks and the bungees don't get tired or cranky. I don't know what would happen if you got all but the last bend, though.

smt

Graham Gott · Nov 22, 2016

At my old shop I had 1" CSST pulled through 3" PVC. I hired this out because at the time I couldn't purchase the CSST as an individual. I was there and don't remember the guys having any great difficulty doing this...but I only had about 135 degrees of bend involved.

WHHJR · Nov 22, 2016

Pulling anything in conduit is complex to say the least. I have done pull calculations for 15KV triplex cable on numerous occasions. Pull force is exponentially compounded as you pass thru various bends and elevations. This shows that pushing the cable (or whatever) into the conduit is very helpful. Do pull off of the spool and feed into the conduit. Also use the largest non-twisted (braided is good)rope available. Use a steady pull force and do not stop. Polywater brand pulling lubes are expensive but they really work (like half the friction of regular soap and wax based lubes).

Have fun.

3¢

Limy Sami · Nov 22, 2016

I wish you luck - you will need it.

Having ONCE pulled 1 1/4'' OD Kopex conduit http://www.kopex.co.uk/product.asp?id=176 ...........thru a 4'' line with 1 x 135deg and 1 - 90deg bend (both long radius) I have no wish to ever repeat the experiment :eek:

FWIW ;- IIRC it was a 20ft run to the 135, then another 15ft to the 90 and up through the slab, pulled from the 90deg (slab) end.

gbent · Nov 22, 2016

A couple of pointers from my electrician. Always use steel sweeps where hard pulls or repulling may be expected. For electrical, use the new super slick no lube wire.

Philabuster · Nov 22, 2016

Heavey Metal said:
Be sure to use a flat rope

Round will cut into the sweeps

AKA, "Mule Tape". VERY strong shit.

This stuff is used only once by the local PoCo and used material is discarded after each job. People are very quick to pick it up after the PoCo leaves it on the ground.

I have bought some on ebay when I ran out of my personal stockpile.

mule tape | eBay

EPAIII · Nov 22, 2016

The code may be OK with CSST in conduit, but the last time I read it, it was not OK with FIVE 90 degree bends without a pull box. Three 90s were the limit or a total of 270 degrees. Then you install a pull box.

OK, it is in the ground and you don't want to dig it up. I would first try to push a steel wire through. Use some of the yellow lube or whatever they are selling at the electric supply houses these days. It WILL help. Be sure to bend the head end of that steel wire into a radius so it does not get stuck. If you can get that steel wire through then, with a helper, pull/push your cable through. Again, use the yellow lube.

It may take some effort, but you can probably do it.

snowman said:
So I've got 2" conduit from house to garage. Need a 3/4" CSST line in it.

The conduit is all the grey PVC...so it's got nice sweeping bends. Unfortunately though, it has 5 of them. The total run is 50 feet (actually a little less).

My dumb ass back filled before pulling. Actually, this was done because of the weather...it started pouring, and I expected my trench to collapse.

I thought it would pull easy...no such luck.

Bout to just run it on the surface then throw dirt on top of it.

So, any suggestions? I'm gonna go pick up a tub of lube tomorrow...and some better pull rope. If that doesn't work, I'm on to surface burying for the winter.

And before you ask, yes, running CSST in conduit underground is perfectly acceptable via code as long as it's appropriately bonded.

snowman · Nov 23, 2016

EPAIII said:
The code may be OK with CSST in conduit, but the last time I read it, it was not OK with FIVE 90 degree bends without a pull box. Three 90s were the limit or a total of 270 degrees. Then you install a pull box.

OK, it is in the ground and you don't want to dig it up. I would first try to push a steel wire through. Use some of the yellow lube or whatever they are selling at the electric supply houses these days. It WILL help. Be sure to bend the head end of that steel wire into a radius so it does not get stuck. If you can get that steel wire through then, with a helper, pull/push your cable through. Again, use the yellow lube.

It may take some effort, but you can probably do it.

NEC or CSST specific? The 270 degrees. Curious, as I never did find an approved lubricant list for the csst.

I just dug a new trench. Now I have an extra conduit for when the direct burial cat 5 shorts out.

But instead of 5, 90's....I changed the design, and just did 2 90s, and 2 45's. It pulled pretty easy.

I wasn't real comfortable pulling hard on a gas line. While I probably could have done it, I'd rather err on the side of safety.

But...got the trench dug, got the line ran...and the furnace installed. Now I can backfill...on a day that it's not 33 deg and raining.

Pulling CSST through conduit...anybody done it?

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