Q about signing shop drawings and legal stuff
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  1. #1
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    Default Q about signing shop drawings and legal stuff

    does signing/dating and putting my shop name in the title block mean that design is protected by any laws or have i been assuming wrong for years.

    purely hypothetical but let's say i design and build a prototype.
    we build it, it works. they like it, they buy a few more...
    months later someone else is making them
    can i do anything?


    again.. purely hypothetical but i come back to this conversation in my head every time i sign and date a print that i design/draw so was hoping for a better understanding of how that all actually works in the real world.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    What are the intellectual property laws like in Afghanistan? (Thar's where your profile says you're from.)

    Unless you've got a contract with your customer stipulating otherwise, the answer in the US is generally, "no, just putting your signature on a drawing doesn't give you any relevant protections." You do have copyright on the drawing, automatically. But that governs reproduction of the drawing itself, not the part described by the drawing.

    If you want protection on the design, you need to file for a patent. Probably not worth it in most cases, costs money and takes enough time (years) to make the protection moot. And then you have to pay more money to enforce your rights against violations.

    About the best you can do is identify the situations where you are doing significant engineering or design innovation, and get paid for it up front. The customer can still do what they want with the product, including off-shoring its manufacture, but you got paid for not just the machine shop work of making a prototype, but the engineering/design work.

    You can try to negotiate a contract with your customer, such that you retain the rights to manufacture the design. They probably won't agree to those terms, but if they do, it will be much cheaper to enforce contract terms (still co$t$ lawyer$) to enforce than a patent violation.

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    It means you made the drawing.

    it means if something fails, after using your drawing, your libel for it.

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    You can do a unpublished Copyright label on your drawings that might get you some legal protection. Again, only good if done in USA. Doesn't protect you outside of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanguard machine View Post
    does signing/dating and putting my shop name in the title block mean that design is protected by any laws or have i been assuming wrong for years.
    yes. without additional I.P. protection such as patent ior copyright, no help at all. if it is an original artwork, such as a photograph or drawing, and you claim your I.P. "copyright XXX, 20XX" it can help in future litigation if copies are made of that, you have an automatic authorship. but as far as something made from the drawing, , no I dont think so.. but im not an I.P. lawyer, so take it for what its worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    It means you made the drawing.

    it means if something fails, after using your drawing, your libel for it.
    no. if the entity which marketed or otherwise offered the "something" based on the drawing, represented it as being suitable for the job or task at hand, for which it failed, they are the culpable party, not the original producer of the artwork. period.

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    Put a note into your title block stating the drawing and all information on it are your property, yada, yada........
    Honorable customers will honor your claimed property rights. It's probably not worth much more than an opportunity to claim moral high ground.

    Per Digger's comment, I don't like signing drawings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    It means you made the drawing.

    it means if something fails, after using your drawing, your libel for it.
    “Fails” and “using” are vague terms in the realm of legal statutes. First sentence was correct, second sentence is not. Libel is a written statement intended to defame. Liable refers to the party responsible.

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    Unless you have a contract that states that your drawings contain YOUR intellectual property, and that the client agrees to not use it, and to keep it confidential, then the drawing you made for your client is work for hire, and is THEIR intellectual property I think. Even if you patent it after you've made it for them I think. For sure, without paper work or a patent stating otherwise, you have no rights to the drawing or any design on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Unless you have a contract that states that your drawings contain YOUR intellectual property, and that the client agrees to not use it, and to keep it confidential, then the drawing you made for your client is work for hire, and is THEIR intellectual property I think. Even if you patent it after you've made it for them I think. For sure, without paper work or a patent stating otherwise, you have no rights to the drawing or any design on it.
    No. If you produce the “artwork” under the direct employment of another as part of your job it belongs to them. If it is produced by you as an independent contractor not. Fir instance, if you hire a photographer to shoot your wedding, the ip is automatically theirs, ( helped by documentation such as “copyright xxx 20xx” ), so as an independent contractor for hire you do not forfeit your ip rights. (Depending on state law and terms of contract)

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    It means you made the drawing.

    it means if something fails, after using your drawing, your libel for it.
    *smirk*

    Any chance you meant "liable", rather than "libel?"

    Mind.. some alleged designs...




    Standard disclaimer # 1 "Hacker's Laws" applied:

    I am not a Lawyer.
    A Nimitz-class carrier battle group is not a Lawyer either.
    Both are true statements.

    Whether either, neither, or both is relevant to your circumstances depends on external factors.


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    If you really believe that some Chinese company is going to honor that, I have some swamp land down in Florida .........



    Quote Originally Posted by NRDock View Post
    Put a note into your title block stating the drawing and all information on it are your property, yada, yada........
    Honorable customers will honor your claimed property rights. It's probably not worth much more than an opportunity to claim moral high ground.

    Per Digger's comment, I don't like signing drawings.

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    A contract between you and a customer is fine, but there are billions of THIRD PARTIES out there in the world and they have no part in that contract.



    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Unless you have a contract that states that your drawings contain YOUR intellectual property, and that the client agrees to not use it, and to keep it confidential, then the drawing you made for your client is work for hire, and is THEIR intellectual property I think. Even if you patent it after you've made it for them I think. For sure, without paper work or a patent stating otherwise, you have no rights to the drawing or any design on it.

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    Any chance he meant "you are" or "you're" instead of "your" which is the possessive of the word "you" and not a contraction. If you are going to dispense legal advise you really should get the terminology correct.

    Machinists should make parts. Leave it to the lawyers to handle legal matters.

    I have thought about this subject and as a practical matter I came to the conclusion that there really is no way to protect yourself unless you are willing to spend more than $10,000 to obtain a patent in the first place and then untold sums to protect your rights under that patent if and when someone infringes on it. And even if you do put out those sums of money, you still may have an uphill fight if the invention is something of real value. From what I have been able to find out, that $10,000 figure is the bargain basement number in this world.

    So you have to ask yourself two things: first is this widget really worth that kind of money? And secondly, do I have a way to come up with that kind of money to play this game? If the answer to either of those is no, then you are probably stuck with what I am stuck with. When I come up with an idea, I take pictures as I make it. Then I write a construction article and send it to George. About six to twelve months later I get a check for the article and several free copies of that month's magazine.

    After that I figure it is pretty much public knowledge. BUT, I have a very good way of proving that I had thought of the idea before the date of that publication so if I do sell it, I don't think anyone can sue ME.

    Frankly, I would take it as a complement if someone would start making whatever it was. I also have some of my articles on sale on another web site. I get a pittance for each sale. I am also working on making some YouTube videos to complement the above.

    If you really do have a tremendous invention, GET A LAWYER. And then, with proper legal advise, try to sell that idea to a company that does have the money to get and defend the patent. Settle for a percentage instead of going broke trying to get it all. And even at that, don't be surprised if you get ripped off anyway. You will be in a long line of other inventors who have suffered that fate.



    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    *smirk*

    Any chance you meant "liable", rather than "libel?"

    Mind.. some alleged designs...




    Standard disclaimer # 1 "Hacker's Laws" applied:

    I am not a Lawyer.
    A Nimitz-class carrier battle group is not a Lawyer either.
    Both are true statements.

    Whether either, neither, or both is relevant to your circumstances depends on external factors.


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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    Any chance he meant "you are" or "you're" instead of "your" which is the possessive of the word "you" and not a contraction. If you are going to dispense legal advise you really should get the terminology correct.
    ROFL!

    You are generally "in the wise zone" on these matters, but if you are going to "dipsense" snarky comments?

    You might want to get your TARGET more accurately identified, if not also your semantics?



    On which account.. one of the few people I have EVER envied was Ed Snyder:

    J.EDWARD SNYDER JR. wrote:

    Your web site has a small error. It was not the Turner Joy but a small naval ship commanded by a Lieutenant who sent a flashing signal (not a radio message) the "Unknown vessel identify yourself" My orders were no message went out without my personal approval so after a final message was sent "unknown vessel - identify yourself or we will open fire", the skipper was called and I sent out the following message, ordering the use of the 24 inch searchlight, "OPEN FIRE WHEN READY - FEAR GOD - DREADNOUGHT" The only way he could tell who sent the signal was the heading"AA - NEW JERSEY BB62" (AA standing for 'unknown vessel'}.
    From:

    New Jersey Reply

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    no. if the entity which marketed or otherwise offered the "something" based on the drawing, represented it as being suitable for the job or task at hand, for which it failed, they are the culpable party, not the original producer of the artwork. period.
    OP did not state title block was "drawn" or "approved".

    "period".....a lawyer could drive a truck thru your defense....

    and about libel....damn autocorrect....


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