Question: Reccomendations for an independent 4 jaw chuck? - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 62
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    BELGIUM
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Do you think I'd be insane enough to spin that chuck up to 3000 rpm just because the spindle speed goes that high?
    PDW
    This is my point, if your chuck is rated for those speeds, why not? Hence my question, im just looking for a chuck that can handle these speeds. I have about 6 years of experience on me, i started out on smaller lathes to learn what is and is not possible. Again i state that of course i dont know everything there is to know, but i definetly know the basics. Sorry if i give of a smart-ass impression, i wouldnt bother with being proven wrong, i try to learn from everything.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,678
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    530
    Likes (Received)
    2477

    Default

    700RPM on a lathe is a lot like midnight.

    Nothing good happens after either one.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    BELGIUM
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    700RPM on a lathe is a lot like midnight.

    Nothing good happens after either one.
    What are you on about?
    In school we had mondial Celtic 14 lathes (fairly unknown brand) fitted with 250mm Chucks and we there those around at 2000 rpm all day and guess what, im stil alive

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    How much actual time machining stuff on a lathe have you done?

    I ask because your assumptions seem based on ignorance really.

    My Colchester Chipmaster has a top speed of 3000 rpm. It also has a 10" diameter P-B 4 jaw chuck that's very nicely made.

    Do you think I'd be insane enough to spin that chuck up to 3000 rpm just because the spindle speed goes that high?

    PDW
    With a "Hobart" address?

    Bet your ass yah would .....if you were in a randy mood!


  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fratskop View Post
    What are you on about?
    In school we had mondial Celtic 14 lathes (fairly unknown brand) fitted with 250mm Chucks and we there those around at 2000 rpm all day and guess what, im stil alive
    Believe it or never, rather a LOT of we Chik'ns actually know the difference between a worthy Mondial and a pretentious Chipmunk.

    "Stil alive" OTOH, makes one wonder if "init" has been activated YET as far as the learning bone grows.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    netherlands Asten
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    544
    Likes (Received)
    364

    Default

    the makers warned against other than the use of the dynamically balanced, ductile-iron chucks with hardened scrolls that had been specially commissioned from Burnerd; A 16-inch (405 mm) ductile-iron heavy-duty 4-jaw chuck and a half-depth body light-duty 12-inch (310 mm) independent 4-jaw chuck were also offered that, like the 3-jaw versions, were all specially made by the Burnerd company.

    find yourself a manual and see what it says .

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    BELGIUM
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Look man i really dont know why you are so hostile, you definitely know more about this stuff than i do and i respect that, so please just help a young one out and Lets all be friendly

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fratskop View Post
    Look man i really dont know why you are so hostile, you definitely know more about this stuff than i do and i respect that, so please just help a young one out and Lets all be friendly
    Just HOW can a "young one" who WILL NOT.. a "refusnik".. possibly take advantage of what? Easily a thousand years of cumulative personal and on-passed wisdom on-offer, so far..

    ...not ONE poster saying "Oh SURELY spin the Motherf**ker up!"

    Knowing as WE do she may not offer to generate shrapnel at all...

    UNTIL some poor bastid crashes her with a dumb-ass move, tool or carriage into his work..

    Did'ja never THINK about the fact that a chuck isn't just a funny-looking flywheel?

    That they are MEANT to do work. That they are HOLDING ONTO sumthin', potentially even MORE nasty-dangerous? You have any IDEA what gets flung OUT of a chuck when shit goes pear-shaped? Long damned list, because an example of near-as-dammit EVERYTHING as a chuck ever gripped has ALSO been ejected when not in the plan.

    And that work generates STRESSES of more than one kind even under "normal" use?

    Trust this. WE sure as f**k have that experience!

    Not all the lessons were cheap or painless, either.

    "Hostile?" Might just save your ASS?

    Even if you choose to wear it right back of your safety glasses.

    We're easy...

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    BELGIUM
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    I guess youre right, the last thing i want is a chuck flying past my face so ill take your advice

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fratskop View Post
    I guess youre right, the last thing i want is a chuck flying past my face so ill take your advice
    Pilgrim? Flying PAST your face is actually not that bad of a day!

    Don't even need medical treatment nor special laundry chemicals.

    That much shit in yer shorts? Cost more in chemicals than they are worth.

    Best to just bury them in the flower bed to fertilize the weeds and buy a new pair!

    DAMHIKT


  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    4,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    849
    Likes (Received)
    852

    Default

    Let's sum it up. Maybe that will help the young fella to understand where everyone here is coming from.

    If you are doing large work, run a large chuck and run it slowly - the work requires this anyway. If you're doing small work, run a smaller chuck or even a collet chuck and spin it up where you need it. This is the usefulness of having a D1 spindle nose, as has already been explained. If you are just trying to run one chuck for everything then you aren't working at peak efficiency - or intelligence.

    I've got a D1-6 machine and it has a 12" independent 4-jaw and a 12" scroll 3-jaw. And a 2000 RPM max speed. I would not even try to run either of those chucks in that vicinity.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    18,935
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14440
    Likes (Received)
    14504

    Default

    Right, now we've got that established, ........who's up for explaining about chuck gripping pressure decreasing as RPM increases?
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 11-10-2019 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Typo

  13. Likes eKretz, Marty Feldman liked this post
  14. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Tight, now we've got that established, ........who's up for explaining about chuck gripping pressure decreasing as RPM increases?
    Balanced-lever Schunk at insane RPM gripping ever-tighter as it heads for stratospheric flight level cruise as justifies commanding the price of a decent motorcar?

    Or a no-name Chicom jackscrew 4-Paw reeking of rancid soya bean oil "preservative"?

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    netherlands Asten
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    544
    Likes (Received)
    364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fratskop View Post
    What are you on about?
    In school we had mondial Celtic 14 lathes (fairly unknown brand) fitted with 250mm Chucks and we there those around at 2000 rpm all day and guess what, im stil alive
    in school you did not learn the most important lesson:
    machines are out to kill you, they do not take prisoners.
    it will happen so fast you will not even be able to see what goes wrong.

  16. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  17. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,678
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    530
    Likes (Received)
    2477

    Default

    My point is....if you need to spin something more than 700RPM, or so, it's seldom big enough to need to be held in a big chuck. Spin your 4" chuck at 2000 if you must. But even then, most things cut well enough at 700.

  18. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    in school you did not learn the most important lesson:
    machines are out to kill you, they do not take prisoners.
    it will happen so fast you will not even be able to see what goes wrong.
    ..or on a 6 or 8 foot Niles, let alone a massive Craven Brothers, it will happen so SLOWLY the whole bay of the machine hall has time to gather and watch your carcass be turned into hamburger, ketchup, and brown sauce before the massive Mike Foxtrot can even be powered-OFF, let alone STOPPED.

    Only machine I know of as DOES take prisoners is a faulty lift. Not always alive, nor in one piece, even so.

  19. #37
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    437
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    120
    Likes (Received)
    159

    Default

    Big work goes in big chuck and spins slowly, small work goes in small chuck and spins quickly. End of story. I have a lathe that came with several chucks new and the 4 jaw and largest 3 jaw and faceplate are not rated for the lathes 2000 RPM Max.

  20. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    727
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    490
    Likes (Received)
    404

    Default

    The highest rpm rated ones are the steel bodied ones as noted previously. NOT semi-steel.

    I just did the same dance with a CNC lathe that can turn 3600rpm. The 12" chuck that came with it is rated for 3200rpm (a Samchully). I spun it to 3000rpm once and it was somewhat terrifying. I now keep it rpm locked at 2000rpm or lower.

    I bought a 12" Bison 4 jaw for it, I recall it was rated to 2500rpm. It was like $4k though. This is CNC so A-8.

    Just buy a steel 4 jaw from a good company and you should be good to go rpm wise. They are just pricey.

  21. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Australia (Hobart)
    Posts
    3,579
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    569
    Likes (Received)
    2714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Big work goes in big chuck and spins slowly, small work goes in small chuck and spins quickly. End of story. I have a lathe that came with several chucks new and the 4 jaw and largest 3 jaw and faceplate are not rated for the lathes 2000 RPM Max.
    This.

    I have 6", 8" and 10" 4-jaw chucks for my Colchester Chipmaster, all relatively light body P-B chucks. I use the chuck according to what I need to hold, and work on what surface speed I need and hence spindle RPM accordingly.

    Sure, the 10" 4 jaw could hold everything the smaller chucks could but why would I want more rotating mass than I absolutely have to have?

    For high speed round bar work of 40mm diameter down I use a collet chuck.

    I think this is the point that the OP is missing - NONE of us think that getting the biggest chuck that the lathe can handle and then assuming that you can run that at max spindle RPM was even vaguely in the manufacturer's mind - UNLESS THEY SPECIFICALLY SAY SO.

    Hell, even for the Monarch CY lathe I have 8" & 10" 3 jaw chucks & 10" and 12" 4 jaw chucks. Not getting any younger, I use the smaller chuck unless I really need the bigger one.

    PDW

  22. Likes eKretz, dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  23. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8612

    Default

    "Now that we finally have your attention...." such that your widow ain't gonna sue us for leading you into harm's way:

    Your ancient Chipmunk isn't really all that fast-turning, so economy side of Forged steel body 4-J independent already on D1-8 backs:

    = TMX - the ones made in Poland, not made in China:

    Clamping, Positioning, Workholding > Lathe Chucks, Centers > Lathe Chucks | 4-Jaw (2 Piece) Independent Forged Steel Body Chuck 12″ D-8 3.15″ Hole | HK3138571238P

    OR the same animal, prolly same production line, from a worthy dealer as actually know what they are dealing in:

    = Bison, also Poland, not China:

    Bison 12" 4 Jaw Independent Manual Chuck D1-8 Mount 7-857-1238F

    CAVEAT: Mind the top RPM and don't go nutso even so.

    Hobart, Tasmaniaca to Sterling/Dulles, Virgin-inyah and yet... wuddn' yah know it, PDW and I are even tooled with a number of similarities or overlaps on at least our 10EE's or CY's.

    Experience, necessity, learning what goods were "fit for a purpose" drove that coincidence. Metals to be worked and problems to be solved are much the same the world over. The maths & Laws of physics? Might even cover at least PART of the known Universe? The corner we be stuck in, anyway:

    - Pratt-Burnerd Multisize steel wedge-collet system, About as good as it ever gets, and priced accordingly

    - other collets as well, Rubberflex, 2J, 5C, ER40, ER20, and then there are the "weird" ones for the TS, taps and such.

    - more yet for the mills. #9 B&S, TG, native 40-taper collets not all hands even know exist.

    - SEVERAL sizes of 4-J independent chuck (4", 5" 6", 7", 8"...)

    - 2J and 6J self (off) centering. A Hardinge-branded 6" Walker magnetic... One French "Handy" 3-Jaw by accident of Cazeneuve OEM I haven't been able to give away yet. Won't use a 3-J scroll-actuated at gunpoint, RUBBER doorstops beat 3-J chucks if only for lesser trip-hazard.

    ISTR I have 4 if not 5 D1-3 mount faceplates in three types, two different CI, (Monarch & P-B differ) one solid steel as well.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch, nor too much well-made tooling.

    Only such thing is not enough space, not enough money, or not enough TIME to spend one to fill the other!



Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •