Quick-change tool posts of first-world origin - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmbmxer View Post
    I don't like the fact that I can't make holders for a multifix toolpost, that might bother you it might not. I like some custom holders I've made for holding smaller HSS tools and the like. And even the knock off toolholders are expensive and don't hold imperial sized tools, you need to bush every round tool.

    Personally I got a used Aloris CXA toolpost and then about 20 off shore oversized holders for it. That to me was the best bang for the buck. I've used the knock off wedge posts and they are don't have the firm take up on the handle like the Aloris. But I see no point in spending lots of money on a block with a dovetail in one side and a slot in the other.
    There's lot's of things I can't make in my shop.

    But I can simply pick up the phone, and have any one of several local Wire EDM shops, make me all the blanks I need.
    FWIW Forrest posted that Create Tool (if they are still in business) was offering "blanks" with just the spline, so you could make your own toolholders.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    question is, why these should be "original". originally chinese, i say.
    From the website:

    "The SRW-AMESTRA GmbH with headquarter in Pforzheim was founded on the 29th May, 1989 by Raimund Wolf. Almost at the same time the industrial enterprise AMESTRA was bought from him, with location in Illkirch-Graffenstaden/France. Here our main product groups are made until this day. We are specified on quick change-tool holders MULTI.... SUISSE"

    Emphasis mine.

    I have no idea if that's true or not, but if you know for a fact that it isn't then why don't you post something more substantive?

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    There's lot's of things I can't make in my shop.

    But I can simply pick up the phone, and have any one of several local Wire EDM shops, make me all the blanks I need.
    FWIW Forrest posted that Create Tool (if they are still in business) was offering "blanks" with just the spline, so you could make your own toolholders.
    Don’t know about still being in business, but for sure they did offer “blanks”. If I remember correctly it did take a while to get them though, might have been a 6 week lead time on specials.

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  6. #24
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    I haven't used a Multifix, but I've used a LOT of Aloris stuff. I've never had a problem with the ones I've used repeating pretty darn close as long as they're kept clean (wedge, not piston). When running multiple parts my numbers on the readouts have usually been within .001" on diameter with equal depths of cut from part to part. And the "multiple toolholders set up with the readouts so you know your diameter right off the get-go" works just fine for the Aloris stuff too.

    I like that ability to quickly adjust the toolholder angle, but I'm not real keen on the 9° spacing. If they would have made it 5° or even 15° I would probably buy one. Most of the time when I'm turning the toolpost it's for an oddball bevel angle, and those almost always fall on an increment that could be hit with those angles. Regardless, a couple tools ground up at the odd angles mean that my toolpost doesn't generally have to be turned much at all. So about the only benefit I could see would be when turning the tool to use the compound for a taper.

  7. #25
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    It would be interesting to know if Create Tool is still in production and shipping.
    They appear to be located in Wuhan, China.
    Anyone have recent experience with them?

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    It would be interesting to know if Create Tool is still in production and shipping.
    They appear to be located in Wuhan, China.
    Anyone have recent experience with them?
    Check the archives from about 6-9 months ago.

  9. #27
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    I had email corespondents with Nina Wang from Create a few weeks back. I had reached out as many folks were concerned that they shut down.
    She informed me that they are still operating normally and asked me to pass this along- direct quote

    “Thank you very much for your email, i also received another email to inquire our situation, thank you very much for your concerning, i do appreciate it, yes, we are still in business, just because our Chairman of the board Mr. Tian Chang Tao passed away(88 years old, natural death, not COVID-19), he is my husband's grandfather too, our general manager is his son, and all company now is preparing his funeral ceremony, because all departments' directors are his students, so, all company employees will go to his hometown to attend the funeral except production department(we are still in production), we will come back work after 29th january after the funeral finished.

    If it is not bother you, could we bother you explain this on those forums please, we appreciate your help very very much, and we will reply all orders after we all be back to office, thank you very much here.

    Kind regards.

    Nina Wang”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Sparky View Post
    but $480 for just a bare tool post is a little excessive for my needs.
    Anything made first world is gonna be first world price IMHO.

    The options are to suck it up, buy used, NOS or get the "quality offshore" product.

    I watch Fleebay a lot...

  12. #29
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    I have no create toolpost or holders to compare but I have a used Minder, a NOS Enco from the early Mivesa period, a Multiquick post and holders that say suisse or made in Switzerland, and a Pewe Tools post and holders.

    I have not blued any contact areas so take this for what it is worth. The NOS Enco and the Pewe fit all holders I have and the lever moves in the 15-20 degree range. The Minder has a little more travel and the Multiquick even more, maybe 60 degrees. The early Swiss tool holders have the best finish and by far the tightest adjusting and grub screws. The lather Suisse look like the early holders but the screws are sloppy and there seems to be a little inconsistency among the holders. My suspicion is one holder might be a clone stamped Swiss but no proof. The earliest holders have a blue- gray cap, the later Swiss have a slightly brighter blue, and the new Chinese ones depend on the brand.

    My Pewe tool post does repeat when moved and returned to less than .001. I haven't measured more closely yet. The Pewe post has three holes spaced 3 degrees apart so if you drill the compound you can get those adjustments but you need to loosen the through bolt so it isn't as easy but doable. Unhardened blanks are also available for custom holders.

    I don't know about the long term but the Chinese clones seem better than I'm used to as an old iron guy. Dave

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    From the website:

    "The SRW-AMESTRA GmbH with headquarter in Pforzheim was founded on the 29th May, 1989 by Raimund Wolf. Almost at the same time the industrial enterprise AMESTRA was bought from him, with location in Illkirch-Graffenstaden/France. Here our main product groups are made until this day. We are specified on quick change-tool holders MULTI.... SUISSE"

    Emphasis mine.

    I have no idea if that's true or not, but if you know for a fact that it isn't then why don't you post something more substantive?
    of course its true. but it doesnt tell you where the "multisuisse" stuff comes from. amestra has had a chinese joint venture for 20 years. and what "original" means is beyond me. creatool is the way to go. pewe is chinese for sure.

    btw, i had a thread about this a couple of years back. i did blue up the holders.

  15. #31
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    Has anyone tried the Create holders on the original Swiss posts? I didn't want to chance it with the cost of freight but it would be helpful to verify. The Pewe holders are guaranteed to fit and the 16 I received do. I only got the post because the pricing of holders without a post are higher making the post almost free. I think create prices similarly. The Pewe post is also bored out on the bottom to 26mm vs the norm of 20mm. It also uses two springs on the cam rather than one. I don't know if Create follows the original design using one. I also saw a video of an AXA multifix where the cam action was different than the original. The cam on the Pewe looks to be similar to the original.

    I've seen three NOS original posts for sale in the past year or two and more used ones so it is possible to find posts. Holders are tougher to source in good condition. I found 6 in the past year that were NOS. The few used ones were hit or miss and frankly not worth the effort vs new clones. Dave

  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    Has anyone tried the Create holders on the original Swiss posts?.... Dave
    A PM member is selling some unused Create holders on eBay and wrote his comments about them not fitting well on his Swiss post.
    MULTIFIX Size A Toolholder for Schaublin 102 USA SELLER IN STOCK AJ3080 | eBay

    Larry

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    Had a knockoff "aloris" style wedge toolpost that came with a lathe. Some Aloris holders, Dorian, and knockoff holders were too tight. Chunked that one holder and got an Aloris, no problem with aloris, dorian or knockoff holders. You can save a few bucks on holders for non-repeating requirements, but the toolpost is worth the money; Dorian and Aloris are a tossup as far as I can tell.

  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    Has anyone tried the Create holders on the original Swiss posts? I didn't want to chance it with the cost of freight but it would be helpful to verify. The Pewe holders are guaranteed to fit and the 16 I received do. I only got the post because the pricing of holders without a post are higher making the post almost free. I think create prices similarly. The Pewe post is also bored out on the bottom to 26mm vs the norm of 20mm. It also uses two springs on the cam rather than one. I don't know if Create follows the original design using one. I also saw a video of an AXA multifix where the cam action was different than the original. The cam on the Pewe looks to be similar to the original.

    I've seen three NOS original posts for sale in the past year or two and more used ones so it is possible to find posts. Holders are tougher to source in good condition. I found 6 in the past year that were NOS. The few used ones were hit or miss and frankly not worth the effort vs new clones. Dave
    all my 12 creatool holders fit my j.f. minder tollpost just fine. see thread i mentioned. better than the ones procured from "german sources".

  19. #35
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    "Has anyone tried the Create holders on the original Swiss posts?"

    I have a Swiss post and a bunch of Swiss and Create holders- they are all used interchangeably and honestly I can't tell the difference between any of them.
    I'd say just put in an order and get to work.

    One side note- one of the primary "first world" clone makers of the Multifix is offshoring them anyways so......


    I am gonna make a rack for over the lathe one of these days and order a bunch more of the Create holders without a second thought.
    They are good to go.

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  21. #36
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    Has anyone had experience with German 'AXA' brand multifix holders and posts? From what little I can dig up on them they seem to be pretty decent except for one minor quirk with the clamping cam - in that it is directionally sensitive (versus the Create Tool or ENCO offerings which are not).

    They're priced much more reasonably than Aloris stuff. I can get a tool post and four holders for less than the cost of an Aloris BXA post - and they are not made in China. Supposedly they're good for a couple of tenths repeatability.

    Stahlhalter24 Multifix-Schnellwechsel-Drehstahlhalter made in Germany | stahlhalter24

    https://youtu.be/xd-OzCjX11Q?t=423

    https://youtu.be/wwb5hVoOAYE?t=44

  22. #37
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    Buy the Aloris.

    I’ve had several originals and clones. The price of the clones is appealing, but they don’t work as nice as the real thing. Both times I’ve bought clones, I ended up replacing them as finances allowed. Its not like the difference is a matter of life or death, but the Aloris is definitely nicer in function.

    Go to their website and see if they have a sale on now. I think they do. Often 20% off retail. Maybe free shipping. Pay once, cry once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henrya View Post
    Buy the Aloris.

    I’ve had several originals and clones. The price of the clones is appealing, but they don’t work as nice as the real thing. Both times I’ve bought clones, I ended up replacing them as finances allowed. Its not like the difference is a matter of life or death, but the Aloris is definitely nicer in function.

    Go to their website and see if they have a sale on now. I think they do. Often 20% off retail. Maybe free shipping. Pay once, cry once.
    The 'AXA' brand is a Multifix clone, not an Aloris clone. Was your mention of clones inclusive of the Multifix system or did you mean to refer only to Aloris clones? Because Aloris and Multifix are completely different 'standards'; i.e. piston/wedge locking dovetails vs a spline interface.

  24. #39
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    Actually AXA is a semi universally used term for the tool post and holders meaning there SIZE and it's certainly not a brand. Aloris, Dorian, Multifix, etc will all use the term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal mach View Post
    Actually AXA is a semi universally used term for the tool post and holders meaning there SIZE and it's certainly not a brand. Aloris, Dorian, Multifix, etc will all use the term.
    In Germany, AXA is a brand. They sell Multifix clones. Perhaps they did not anticipate any sales in North America and thought AXA was a good choice of brand name for EU customers. As seen, the name causes confusion in the USA and Canada.

    Multifix does not use AXA as a size description, The Multifix sizes are Aa, A, E, B, C etc.

    Stahlhalter24 Multifix-Schnellwechsel-Drehstahlhalter made in Germany | stahlhalter24 Link to German AXA from post #36.

    Larry


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