Is this *really* what wages are..? (I know subjective to area)
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  1. #1
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    Default Is this *really* what wages are..? (I know subjective to area)

    WOW! This is highly disappointing...

    Experienced Manual Machinist - manufacturing - job employment

    aerospace= PITA

    CNC Lathe/Mill Machinist 2nd Shift - manufacturing - job employment

    run o' the mill job, low wage

    Plastic Injection Mold Maker - manufacturing - job employment

    pay not mentioned (flag much?) but wanting 15 years exp... curious if anyone would follow up on this?

    Setup Machinist - manufacturing - job employment

    LMAO! bring your skills, name your price... OOKKKAAYYY

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    I used to live in that area. Pay in my trade (mold maker) has essentially been flat for many years. I just retired from a job making only a little more than I did 20 years ago. The most I ever made (with a lot of overtime) was in 1992! Meanwhile, the price of everything has at least doubled. So- after a lifetime of experience and accumulated knowledge, I make HALF of what I used to. Sadly, I no longer recommend my trade to young people. I live in SC now, and pay scales are even lower than FL. It's a cheap place to retire, though, and that's what I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    I used to live in that area. Pay in my trade (mold maker) has essentially been flat for many years. I just retired from a job making only a little more than I did 20 years ago. The most I ever made (with a lot of overtime) was in 1992! Meanwhile, the price of everything has at least doubled. So- after a lifetime of experience and accumulated knowledge, I make HALF of what I used to. Sadly, I no longer recommend my trade to young people. I live in SC now, and pay scales are even lower than FL. It's a cheap place to retire, though, and that's what I did.
    I'm not sure what you consider cheap? I lived in SC for a year and they tax you on everything! I did however live in a 'tourist' area....

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    Every state taxes you; just in different ways. Our property taxes are very low, as are gasoline taxes. But there is income tax. No income tax on SS, though. Sales tax is a rather average 6%. There's an additional tax on fast food, but we don't eat that. The property tax on our house is 1/3 of what we paid in FL, and 1/10 of what my brother pays in New England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    Every state taxes you; just in different ways. Our property taxes are very low, as are gasoline taxes. But there is income tax. No income tax on SS, though. Sales tax is a rather average 6%. There's an additional tax on fast food, but we don't eat that. The property tax on our house is 1/3 of what we paid in FL, and 1/10 of what my brother pays in New England.
    And there you have it. As a retiree, significant low or even NO (State) SSA component of "income" taxable, property tax has become my single greatest annual category of expense.

    As to wages in general? Not only craft skills.

    Telecoms Managers and even ULM Execs, the "working" levels, not the "rip-off" levels, have been flat as well.

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    Ok this is probably going to piss someone off but oh well. I had 2 guys come to my shop to apply for a job. 1st guy. 3 years experience, CNC set up and operation all programs already written and tooling organized for each particular job. No programming ability. Claimed he had manual machine experience also. No personal tools to speak of. Expected $27.00 per hour.

    2nd guy. 20 years experience production environment. CNC set up operation no programming. Claimed he had manual machine experience, said he did G jobs at his previous workplace while the production machines where running. Largest tool in his collection was a 2" mic. Also expected $27.00 per hour.

    These are just the last 2 guys I've seen way lees experienced people expecting more pay. I think a lot of people think they are worth way more than they actually are.

    I have 42 years experience. I have 8 toolboxes full of my own personal tools my largest mic is 18" I have my own 48" caliper and everything in between. I can set up operate and program CNC mills and lathes. I can set up and run - operate large and small manual mills, lathes, HBM's surface grinders. cylindrical grinders, gear hobbing machines, gear shaping machines, honing machines, lapping machines, portable boring and milling machinery, ect, ect, ect.

    So what am I worth per hour?

    I am worth what ever the guy offering the job offers to pay me. Simple as that. I have had good paying jobs and not so good paying jobs. But I've always had a job. 42 years straight. If 1 job wasn't enough I had 2 jobs.

    Ok I'm done with my rant. Fire when ready!

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    One more thing. All the people that work for me make more per hour than I do.

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    1) many places dont want personal tools taking up their shop space. I had 7 big tool boxes at home from previous jobs and normal home tool boxes that I had to give away or bring many tool boxes to junk yard.
    .
    after all if anything like tools not used in over 7 years and you got no room in garage to walk then its just hoarding junk

    2)job postings often offer low pay and often cannot find people at wages offered. I have often seen this go on for years trying to find replacement shop people. or they find people and they find the people they find are not whats expected and they often are laid off or fired
    .
    3)many places pay rate is deceptive if $20/hr plus 6% 401k match thats already $21.20 and if they give $1000. for hsa insurance too it really a higher wage and if alot of overtime at 150% pay often that person can make easily over $60,000 per year
    .
    just saying $27/hr nothing extra and no overtime pay is much less at end of year than $20/hr with the benefits
    .
    i am a cnc operator and my 7 year average pay with benefits is $72,000/yr and my pay lately has been higher than average. if your pay alot lower maybe you should look for a different place to work at.

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    Eesh, my Grandfather owns a shop in that area. I have no idea what he pays his guys, but I know it's enough that they've all worked for him for a couple decades, and he has basically zero turnover... There was a period of time a few years ago where I considered going to work for him, with the opportunity to eventually take over the shop and buy him out when he was ready to retire. I sometimes still think about it...

    All I can say is none of those posts have me dusting off the resume....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    1) many places dont want personal tools taking up their shop space. I had 7 big tool boxes at home from previous jobs and normal home tool boxes that I had to give away or bring many tool boxes to junk yard.
    .
    after all if anything like tools not used in over 7 years and you got no room in garage to walk then its just hoarding junk

    2)job postings often offer low pay and often cannot find people at wages offered. I have often seen this go on for years trying to find replacement shop people. or they find people and they find the people they find are not whats expected and they often are laid off or fired
    .
    3)many places pay rate is deceptive if $20/hr plus 6% 401k match thats already $21.20 and if they give $1000. for hsa insurance too it really a higher wage and if alot of overtime at 150% pay often that person can make easily over $60,000 per year
    .
    just saying $27/hr nothing extra and no overtime pay is much less at end of year than $20/hr with the benefits
    .
    i am a cnc operator and my 7 year average pay with benefits is $72,000/yr and my pay lately has been higher than average. if your pay alot lower maybe you should look for a different place to work at.
    There's no way I'm gonna accept a 25/hr job then work all kinds of ot to make up the difference.

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    dept. of labor has statistics.

    You would be amazed on how most shops think they NEED to pay dirt wages to survive. By doing this they can't hire or get crap talent instead...and still go under or limp by..and then can't afford to pay decent wages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    One more thing. All the people that work for me make more per hour than I do.
    This is true for lots of business owners, but typically your business is increasing in value and/or you can take a draw from time to time from business income that you previously paid taxes on and generally this is where a company vehicle can be in the mix. So in the big picture, you are making more than most of your employees who draw a higher salary.

    Also if you own the building the business operates from (or the bank owns and the business is paying the mortgage) . . . you are building some equity there as well.

    If you aren’t doing these kinds of things but rather you are pouring everything just into day to day operations and still in the big picture making less than several of your employees, you probably make less because you don’t play well with others calling the shots . . . which is fine too, but that is your choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    One more thing. All the people that work for me make more per hour than I do.
    In every single line of work there are owners that a making a great living or even "getting rich" and owners that are struggling or not doing well... Look in the mirror on that one and seriously consider what you are saying. That attitude is very one dimensional. The day any of those employees making MORE per hour quit, their income drops to ZERO, at the same time does any one of those people quitting drop yours to zero? I have worked for a handful of people with that attitude and its a real downer as an employee.

    As another fun example a place I worked had a rockstar sales guy who was 100% commission. He was just crushing it and his income was well into the six figures. The owner came down on him because he was just paying him way too much... well the sales guy quit, took a substantial amount of clients with him and it hurt everyone. All because he was doing too well under the predetermined percentage based commission system that the owner setup.

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    Wages have been shit for a long time and still are. Companies that pay good salaries are rare.
    I would not recommend any young people enter this trade at the current pay rates.

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    Been playing machinist 21yrs, wages have been disappointing for most of it.

    Recently had a cold call from a public utility, Sr HR representative called back after four years, it has been hit and miss for around six plus years.

    Four years is a long time, but why would anyone take a pay cut?

    Everything has value driving 2.5 miles / 15 minutes to work vs 30-60 miles / 1 - 2 hrs of metropolitan traffic. Decent insurance / pay/ bonuses/ vacation.

    Almost time to find a hot dog cart.....

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    If all you have is an acceptance for what is offered, that's all you are going to get.

    Bring something of value to the table, and you can ask for a LOT more and get it. Most places are hurting for good people that bring value to the organization.

    People who work just for a paycheck get what they are worth.

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    [QUOTE=kustomizingkid;3400465]In every single line of work there are owners that a making a great living or even "getting rich" and owners that are struggling or not doing well... Look in the mirror on that one and seriously consider what you are saying. That attitude is very one dimensional. The day any of those employees making MORE per hour quit, their income drops to ZERO, at the same time does any one of those people quitting drop yours to zero? I have worked for a handful of people with that attitude and its a real downer as an employee.

    As another fun example a place I worked had a rockstar sales guy who was 100% commission. He was just crushing it and his income was well into the six figures. The owner came down on him because he was just paying him way too much... well the sales guy quit, took a substantial amount of clients with him and it hurt everyone. All because he was doing too well under the predetermined percentage based commission system that the owner setup.[/QUOT

    My employees don't know what I make from this and I never say anything about my pay vs. theirs. I never complain about money or profit issues to them.

    The unionized companies that are within 10 miles of me every direction don't pay as well as I do. you have to get over an hour away to get better money.
    We've had people quit and it hurts everyone here. less people doing more work. Now days it doesn't matter what the O.T. scale is people burn out on O.T. fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    If all you have is an acceptance for what is offered, that's all you are going to get.

    Bring something of value to the table, and you can ask for a LOT more and get it. Most places are hurting for good people that bring value to the organization.

    People who work just for a paycheck get what they are worth.
    I served a 7 year apprenticeship. Union Journeyman. I can bring quite a bit "to the table"
    I quit a job paying $32.00 per hour plus full benefits to run my own shop. I still get job offers for good pay now and then. I just don't like working under the new style management a lot of companies have gone to. That's what drove me to go out on my own. I quit the management as they say not the job. I'm not going to say I know everything about how to manage, but I learned a lot about how not to manage. Or at least I like to think so. I could be wrong, have been before.

    I guess it just irks me when I talk to people with little or no real experience who expect to be paid what I can easily make with prove-able skills and abilities.

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    You are competing with the WORLD. The shops are doing that and the workers are also doing that but less directly. You are competing with Chinese workers who will work for $10,000 per year. And, on top of that, they rip off all our intellectual property (patent rights). We do the research and development and they copy the products, sometimes poorly but sometimes very well. A shop owner is faced with these pressures.

    A few years ago I attempted to develop and market a small, electronic device. It was a nice idea for a nifty device, but just the cost in the US of the parts involved ran the price up to around $35. That is with discounts for larger purchases. A Chinese company could probably crank these out for $2 or $3 each. Priced at around $40, I simply can not sell any. Anyone with even a lick of experience in such products will immediately see that my price is way out of proportion.

    Those shop owners face a similar situation. The details may be different, but the bottom line is the same. They may have the advantage of faster delivery or of being a company that is right here if a problem arises, but they are up against the reality.

    That is the reality of the world economy. Unfortunately.

    I hope that the current trade measures being taken will help this situation, at least to some extent. They can't change the salary structure in China, but they can/could help in other areas, like the rip off of patent rights.



    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessWaltz View Post
    dept. of labor has statistics.

    You would be amazed on how most shops think they NEED to pay dirt wages to survive. By doing this they can't hire or get crap talent instead...and still go under or limp by..and then can't afford to pay decent wages.

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    Low ball shops are all across the country, Often they have anyone can do it jobs and expect to have guys walk as soon as they find better pay. Guys learning the ropes go on to $25 and up.

    Some shops stay low with the guys liking conditions, and there is nothing wrong with that. I know a world class outfit that likely pays about $22 ( I'm guessing as the were about $20 a few years ago) or so and the guys love it.
    They have some of the worlds top grinder hands..along with CNC guys and manual machine guys..
    They manufacture special grinding machines that are sold and known world wide...


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