Recomendations on Chrome Plating Dials

I have a Monarch 61 from 1956 that I'd like to have the dials re-plated. However the etching of graduates and numbers seems thin. I'm not sure if the marking were done prior to plating or after plating. Concern being that the markings will be washed out or not visible after getting plated.

I'm not at all familiar with chrome plating other than what I read up on in the past few days. Perhaps the plating is a much thinner coat than I realize, or maybe attemping to clean and polish is a better route, or maybe even dial replacement.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Tried taking pics flash and no flash, so some pics may seem redundant.

I sent a measurement collar for plating once, the plater did it, decided it was horrible, re did with nickel, which looked better, I had to agree, they are very similar to me not being well versed, anything shiny is chrome to me, he also redid my mixer tap, really nice others here will know much more than me, I thought the shiny colt 1911 was chrome, apparently that’s nickel too,
Mark

Media blast the lot. Re-scrib lines that look the crappiest and then spray coat with a two part clear coat.

A plater will remove all the existing junk before anything else. Then a flash tin & copper coats before the chrome. They will look worse with all those dents.
Maybe not. I would find a plater and ask questions. Beware of "Yeah, we can do that....."
They will probably have some apprentice buff all the existing stuff off. It would be nice if the nicks and scratches can be filled by a flash coat of
something but it doesn't work like that.

(I have had chrome plating done before )

boslab said:

I sent a measurement collar for plating once, the plater did it, decided it was horrible, re did with nickel, which looked better, I had to agree, they are very similar to me not being well versed, anything shiny is chrome to me, he also redid my mixer tap, really nice others here will know much more than me, I thought the shiny colt 1911 was chrome, apparently that’s nickel too,
Mark

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Stainless for the 1911 ...

It depends on the finish you want. Nickle is self leveling, that is, it tends to fill scratches and make a more level and shinier surface. Chromium goes the other way. on a rough surface (remember we are talking about microns, not big peaks) the higher points attract more current and grow higher yet.

Chromium has a blue tinted color which most people prefer to the yellow caste of nickel and chrome is more resistant to oxidation. Nickle starts off as a nice bright finish but turns dull with time. Chromium does not. Most "chrome plating" is actually a comparative thick layer of nickel with a thin layer of chromium.

So called hard chrome is plated directly on steel without the nickel layer and in thin layers has about the hardness of the steel. Above a couple of thousandths the hardness reading will approach that of chromium and has better wear qualities than steel, even hardened steel. Hard chrome is used a lot for repairing worn shafts. I do a lot of electrical work for Vishion Tool and Machine who does that work. They grind the shaft first to get a good surface, then have it chromed to more than the original diameter, often several thousandths, and grind it to the original spec. The plating frequently takes many hours and comes out rough with whiskers on corners, but the result after grinding is as good as you will see on any shaft or hydraulic cylinder rod and is very wear resistant.

To get the desirable satin finish on micrometer barrels you want to strip the old chrome, get a good smooth surface, then plate directly on the steel until it achieves the desired satin. One time I wanted a chrome finish on a rifle parts that was not glaring but not full satin. By playing with the solution temperature, current, and time, I got a finish that looked like I had blown my breath of a cold, bright part.

If the plater is not familiar with the technique, don't let him ruin your parts. My experience with platers is that they know how to plate car exhaust pipes and little more. If he does it right, it will not fill your graduations.

Bill

rons said:

Media blast the lot. Re-scrib lines that look the crappiest and then spray coat with a two part clear coat.

A plater will remove all the existing junk before anything else. Then a flash tin & copper coats before the chrome. They will look worse with all those dents.
Maybe not. I would find a plater and ask questions. Beware of "Yeah, we can do that....."
They will probably have some apprentice buff all the existing stuff off. It would be nice if the nicks and scratches can be filled by a flash coat of
something but it doesn't work like that.

(I have had chrome plating done before )

Click to expand...

Ignore this. He has no idea of what he is talking about. DO NOT BLAST THE PARTS!!!!

I have been plating since the mid 60s, gold, a lot of silver, more of tin, nickel and copper. I have a patent for an instrument to measure the sulfate content of chrome plating solutions. I think I can claim to know what I am talking about.

Bill

Sure would be nice:

Get a full size coffee can with one side open. Hang a metal part in the inside. Pour a solution in a saucer and then place coffee can over plate. After a few hours the
vapor from the solution will deposit a metal film on the part. No chem lab instruments.

Back to the dials.

Look at Eastwood plating products. I wonder if you can perform a plating, then knock it down a bit resulting in voids being filled. Do it a second time, etc.
The graduations and lettering would have to be cleaned out if they are getting filled too fast. For scribing the straight lines I would mount dials in a fixture
and use a straight edge with point tool. The lettering and lines should be done under a magnification lens. Otherwise just one mistake.
Would be time consuming but if those dials are the only ones...

In reading previous threads and other information, I assumed nickle plating was what I wanted. Not necessarily correct, just an assumption from reading.

What I think of in differences in shiny and satin chrome I think of Starrett mics. Older versions were shinier, but later it seems they are satin. As an example, two pics, flash and no flash on camera:



First and foremost I need to be able to read the dials. But as the machine is from 1956, I thought flashy and shiny chrome would be more in line with the style. I've got the tail stock prepped so you can get an idea of color scheme:



Now I have a long way to go on my lathe. But every handle and knob is chrome. Most just need clean and polishing, but some need a re-do.

As an example of all the chrome handles, here's another guy's finished project, he has different dials, but the rest is the same:



So if I keep all my other handles original shiny chrome, I would think I need the dials that way also to look right.

I ya wanna get crazy, the way you do chrome when restoring a 62 Ferrari or somesuch is you strip the plating then have it coppered, do bodywork in the copper, recopper, repeat. When you get it just perfect, nickel, chrome

I think hard chrome would look fine

Think of the WW2 machines, like mine, plain steel dials.

rons said:

Sure would be nice:

Get a full size coffee can with one side open. Hang a metal part in the inside. Pour a solution in a saucer and then place coffee can over plate. After a few hours the
vapor from the solution will deposit a metal film on the part. No chem lab instruments.

Back to the dials.

Look at Eastwood plating products. I wonder if you can perform a plating, then knock it down a bit resulting in voids being filled. Do it a second time, etc.
The graduations and lettering would have to be cleaned out if they are getting filled too fast. For scribing the straight lines I would mount dials in a fixture
and use a straight edge with point tool. The lettering and lines should be done under a magnification lens. Otherwise just one mistake.
Would be time consuming but if those dials are the only ones...

Click to expand...

Vapor depositing of metals is done in a vacuum chamber evacuated to the point that the mean free path of the metal vapor is longer than the distance to the part. You put the metal to be deposited on a heater, usually a platinum boat or a tungsten filament and run a current through it until it vaporizes. I do it in a vacuum chamber with a diffusion pump, a liquid nitrogen vapor trap and a mechanical pump backing the diffusion pump. You aren't going to do it in a coffee can.

I satin chromed the cross slide dial on my Logan lathe. I just cleaned it up and plated it. Chrome will not plate down in narrow grooves, a characteristic called "poor throwing power".

Don't let your dials near a buffer. Just clean them up with very fine sandpaper after soaking them in a grease solvent overnight.


All the Starrett instruments I have are satin chrome or bare steel. None are nickel.

Bill

Or just make up some new ones in SS. Micro-Gaging Dial resto. Pt.2

daryl bane said:

Or just make up some new ones in SS. Micro-Gaging Dial resto. Pt.2

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That looks great. And looks right with the rest of your handles.

Also looking at part 1 here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...1-a-186432/?highlight=Micro-Gaging+Dial+resto

I see you mentioned a friend cnc'd the graduates, does that include the numbers, or did you stamp them ?

9100 said:

Ignore this. He has no idea of what he is talking about. DO NOT BLAST THE PARTS!!!!

I have been plating since the mid 60s, gold, a lot of silver, more of tin, nickel and copper. I have a patent for an instrument to measure the sulfate content of chrome plating solutions. I think I can claim to know what I am talking about.

Bill

Click to expand...

Ignore this. He has no depth of knowledge for the different types of media for cleaning.

Use gentle cutting media with low pressure for cleaning only.

9100 said:

Vapor depositing of metals is done in a vacuum chamber evacuated to the point that the mean free path of the metal vapor is longer than the distance to the part. You put the metal to be deposited on a heater, usually a platinum boat or a tungsten filament and run a current through it until it vaporizes. I do it in a vacuum chamber with a diffusion pump, a liquid nitrogen vapor trap and a mechanical pump backing the diffusion pump. You aren't going to do it in a coffee can.

I satin chromed the cross slide dial on my Logan lathe. I just cleaned it up and plated it. Chrome will not plate down in narrow grooves, a characteristic called "poor throwing power".

Don't let your dials near a buffer. Just clean them up with very fine sandpaper after soaking them in a grease solvent overnight.


All the Starrett instruments I have are satin chrome or bare steel. None are nickel.

Bill

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He's right about the buffer but wrong about the sandpaper and soaking business. You have underlying rust. All those fine lines
will have embedded rust. Take care of that first.

Forget the soaking over night. This isn't the 50's any more. A Q-tip with a little acetone can clean those up fine.

rons said:

He's right about the buffer but wrong about the sandpaper and soaking business. You have underlying rust. All those fine lines
will have embedded rust. Take care of that first.

Forget the soaking over night. This isn't the 50's any more. A Q-tip with a little acetone can clean those up fine.

Click to expand...

You haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Do you even know what a water break test is? I use a vapor degreaser with perchlorethylene, the same solvent dry cleaners use. Even that does not always do the job. Beryllium copper strip had a coating that was very difficult to remove, probably a lubricant used in rolling it out. Perch wouldn't touch it. I would soak the parts in tolulene for a week, then transfer them to fresh tolulene for another week, then do a surface activation by making them positive in 8% sulfuric acid with a titanium cathode. From there I would go straight into the plating tank, no strike, and got excellant adhesion.

For steel you need a fresh surface, hence the light sanding, then go into a surface activation, usually dilute hydrochloric acid, then into the chrome tank with the parts made positive for a moment to remove any last traces of oxidation, then make it negative for the actual plating.

This is the last I am going to post here because I have better things to do than arguing with a fool.

Bill

Nobody needs to take jabs at eachother . Getting different perspectives is a way I learn something.

When you guys mention not a buffer, I assume you mean the white cloth or sheep skin type ? Not a wire wheel, which I would guess is not good either. Is there a reason why ? What about compound for polishing ?

At my home shop I use mineral spirits as my primary degreaser, followed by an acetone based thinner if I'm painting.

If I choose not to bead blast, how would I strip the parts ? In reading one chrome shops services, part of their service claims to strip it down to bare metal first. Is that something I should tackle myself ?

Out of curiosity, what kind of investment would be needed to set up and do chrome plating myself ?

Currently my thinking is, I will let someone try to hard chrome, and if the graduates look terrible, then daryl bane's idea of essentially making up ring gears to slide on top would solve that problem. My main worry is if they were destroyed, I'd not have a way to replace them, the ring gears give me a way out.

texasgunsmith said:

Is that something I should tackle myself ?

Out of curiosity, what kind of investment would be needed to set up and do chrome plating myself ?

Click to expand...

Plating Kits - Page 1 - Caswell Inc

Caswell sells diy chroming kits

triumph406 said:

Plating Kits - Page 1 - Caswell Inc

Caswell sells diy chroming kits

Click to expand...

Searching around their site they have a nice little 35 minute video that helps with some basic understanding of the process:
Plating Kits - Chrome Plating Kits - Triple Chrome Plating Kits - Page 1 - Caswell Inc

texasgunsmith said:

Searching around their site the have a nice little 35 minute video that helps with some basic understanding of the process:
Plating Kits - Chrome Plating Kits - Triple Chrome Plating Kits - Page 1 - Caswell Inc

Click to expand...

Maybe one of the brush plating kits would suffice.

Plug N''' Plate Copy Chrome Kit - Caswell Inc

You might want to ask some vintage m/cycle restorers who they use to re-chrome m/cycle parts. They would know the best people to use if you had to send it out.