I recently bought an old Heavy 10 that I've been trying to learn, and I ran into a couple of issues with a live center that I hope somebody can help me with. I was using the live center in the tailstock last night with a piece that I had drilled out with a centering bit, but I noticed that somehow the center kept moving away from the workpiece. I had the tailstock locked and it didn't look like the workpiece was moving in the chuck, does that mean I didn't have the center seated deeply enough in the tailstock? What's the proper way to do that? Can I tap it with a rubber mallet? The live center in question is an old Craftsman that came with the lather and has got some rust on it and it doesn't feel like it's turning very smoothly. Can these be disassembled to clean and lube the bearings, or is it just toast? I didn't see an obvious way to do that.
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rookie questions about live centers
- Thread starter jml74
- Start date
- Replies 22
- Views 8,140
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
It sounds as if the tailstock center-line isn't aligned with the sideways with the headstock centerline. Check You tube ..several like this one. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT on Clausing Atlas South Bend Lathes Part 1 - YouTube
iwananew10K
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Location
- moscow,ohio
get a new live center, clean the tailstock taper, seat new live center solidly
by hand and don't torque it into the workpiece.
by hand and don't torque it into the workpiece.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
A solid live center with having alignment error, wobble, or out of round can distort a soft part center and so seem to be getting lose as the part center or the center point distorts away...same for a live center re-ground past the hardened case hard..and the live centers point may not be ground to exact correct angle so check with your fish or plate check it with a sine bar set -up. also error of live center angle can make them seem to go lose. If it seems to run smooth and runs zero then it may usable...I used to be responsible for regrinding live and dead centers...after installing new bearings they had to be reground off the new bearings...as the part error would be double the run out of the center. After re grinding they had to show no/zero dectable error.
I have seen new bargain live centers that were not close enough to run close work.
IMHO a .001" live center belongs in the dumpster.SHARS 3MT . 1" LIVE CENTER 661 LB 3 RPM MORSE TAPER 3 TRIPLE BEARING MT3 | eBay
I have seen new bargain live centers that were not close enough to run close work.
IMHO a .001" live center belongs in the dumpster.SHARS 3MT . 1" LIVE CENTER 661 LB 3 RPM MORSE TAPER 3 TRIPLE BEARING MT3 | eBay
randyc
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
- Location
- Eureka, CA, USA
Tapping anything into the tailstock (or headstock) of your lathe is NOT a nice thing to do. If the tool doesn't lock up solidly, after cleaning both tapers, by simply inserting with a twist, something is bad wrong.
I think that using a live center is often akin to using a carbide cutting tool. A new operator hasn't yet learned how/when to use a dead center versus live center and/or how to grind a HSS cutting tool.
Good dead centers for a #2 taper are not expensive and good ones nearly universally produce better work than live chucks (some care required when turning aluminum). Buy one with a carbide tip and try it. Lubricated and used properly for the correct applications, it will last a lifetime.
AND it provides slightly more room near the tailstock than the larger live chuck. Your lathe spindle RPM isn't really fast enough to require a live chuck although it may be handy on a few occasions.)
Just personal opinions of course.
I think that using a live center is often akin to using a carbide cutting tool. A new operator hasn't yet learned how/when to use a dead center versus live center and/or how to grind a HSS cutting tool.
Good dead centers for a #2 taper are not expensive and good ones nearly universally produce better work than live chucks (some care required when turning aluminum). Buy one with a carbide tip and try it. Lubricated and used properly for the correct applications, it will last a lifetime.
AND it provides slightly more room near the tailstock than the larger live chuck. Your lathe spindle RPM isn't really fast enough to require a live chuck although it may be handy on a few occasions.)
Just personal opinions of course.
After looking at the first part of that video, I think that's at least part of the problem. I eyeballed the tailstock from behind and it looks noticeably out. I was in a hurry to start messing around and didn't do any setup after I got this thing powered and put in place, I probably need to take a step back and deal with that.
Any suggestions on a decent live center that won't break the bank? I know good tooling's not cheap, but I'm just getting set up and am already spending money hand over fist.
My first try would be a good, used tool. Just about any reputable North American or European (and many Japanese)tool will be better than cheap (and not so cheap) current imports. On my lathes I am using Skoda, Hardinge and Rohm. I got both the Hardinge and Rohm used and both are perfect.
James H Clark
Stainless
- Joined
- May 11, 2011
- Location
- southern in.
jm174: It also may be that the piece being turned is sliding into the chuck, especially if you are using a three jaw chuck. If you are using a four jaw chuck, and are chucked up tightly, probably not. Good luck.
JH
JH
iwananew10K
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Location
- moscow,ohio
This ain't bad...there's cheaper ones out there but I can't recommend them.
Vertex, Live Center, Light Duty, Standard, MT2, VPC-MT2, 5 1- 2 | eBay
Vertex, Live Center, Light Duty, Standard, MT2, VPC-MT2, 5 1- 2 | eBay
9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
If your work piece gets hot, it can push even a well locked tailstock back. Pay the price for one of these centers and you won't have to worry about it.
Riten Industries: Spring-Loaded,"Concentric" Live Centers
Bill
Riten Industries: Spring-Loaded,"Concentric" Live Centers
Bill
Mike C.
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
I think your issue is probably the work slipping in the chuck or the tailstock pushing back.
For a real quick check on centering, face a piece in the chuck and stop just before you reach center, leaving a tiny pip in the work. That is the exact center of your spindle. Now bring your tailstock up and make sure the point of the center is exactly in the center of that pip. If not, adjust until it is close as you can get it.
If you are taking deep cuts with high feed and your cutter is dull or doesn't have enough side rake, the work is going to try to push into the chuck. An old worn three jaw with the jaws splayed out will let the work push into the chuck pretty easily, which will give the illusion of the tailstock or center moving away. Put a mark on the work right at the chuck jaw and try another cut, then look to see if the mark is moving towards the chuck jaw.
If your tailstock is dirty or not properly tightened, it can also move. If you have a dial indicator, put it against the tailstock and take a cut to see if the indicator shows movement.
I'm betting the work is creeping in the chuck jaws, though.
For a real quick check on centering, face a piece in the chuck and stop just before you reach center, leaving a tiny pip in the work. That is the exact center of your spindle. Now bring your tailstock up and make sure the point of the center is exactly in the center of that pip. If not, adjust until it is close as you can get it.
If you are taking deep cuts with high feed and your cutter is dull or doesn't have enough side rake, the work is going to try to push into the chuck. An old worn three jaw with the jaws splayed out will let the work push into the chuck pretty easily, which will give the illusion of the tailstock or center moving away. Put a mark on the work right at the chuck jaw and try another cut, then look to see if the mark is moving towards the chuck jaw.
If your tailstock is dirty or not properly tightened, it can also move. If you have a dial indicator, put it against the tailstock and take a cut to see if the indicator shows movement.
I'm betting the work is creeping in the chuck jaws, though.
I agree with Mike. It may not be aligned properly but the work piece and the T/S ought to sit still.
Brent
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
You can load pressure the live center point then hand turn the center under an indicator to see run-out by pushing it onto a flat hard part held in the locked head stock and rotating just the live centers point..yes just enough pressure so you can feel a little drag but still turn it by hand...pushing onto a soft part may lock the point so not telling the center's error. Mark it for high and low.. Then half turn the held part and check again..this tells if there might be an angle on the held part. Should check with the same high place..
Regrinding you have to do the same.. the point has to be loaded.
.0002 is about the max for a live center.(junk IMHO). A dead center runs at zero...
Junk (poorly made) live centers may not correct with regrinding because the center point shaft may have wobble because it was not made between centers...
Regrinding you have to do the same.. the point has to be loaded.
.0002 is about the max for a live center.(junk IMHO). A dead center runs at zero...
Junk (poorly made) live centers may not correct with regrinding because the center point shaft may have wobble because it was not made between centers...
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Agree with Skoda, Hardinge. Rohm. Riten (mentioned), Royal and the like...even a used name brand then reground will be much better than a bargain import..
QT:[Any suggestions on a decent live center that won't break the bank? I know good tooling's not cheap, but I'm just getting set up and am already spending money hand over fist.]
For much work you cant beat a dead center or a steady....
QT:[Any suggestions on a decent live center that won't break the bank? I know good tooling's not cheap, but I'm just getting set up and am already spending money hand over fist.]
For much work you cant beat a dead center or a steady....
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Surprised he did not say micrometer the mandrel ..then find half the mandrel taper in the test..Yes he does say it has .0005 to .001 taper..
And says the turning a part tell the final story...
Think every green lathe hand should watch Tubelcain's videos..this is as important as How to Run a lathe IMHO..
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
Money is tight? When is it not?
Go at it from the other side.... buy "several" decent DEAD centres and recognize that they are either "expendable" (I'd not even THINK of regrinding my Chinese ones) or rather cheaply regrindable. My new Starks or Grand Tool - NOS shelf-hoors from clear back to the 1940's can be re-ground for relatively small money, and are well worth it.
A cheap live centre with a "kit" of various noses might have a use for working with pipe or tubing, but only the very BEST of live centres belongs on a job a dead-centre can do more accurately. Skoda (Czech) is rather good value-for-money.
PS: I again plug "Cimcool center saver" AKA pink slime as superior to white lead, Molyslip-G, Arco graphite grease, polar bear fat, bar-chain oil, Witch hazel road tar mix, bacon-rind, banana peels, used differential lube, or rendered goose fat at getting decent life-expectancy out of a dead centre.
It was MADE for that, is cheap enough, works well, and doesn't offer to lead-poison your Grandkids into drooling idiots.
Amazon.com: Buying Choices: 2 oz. Tube, Center Saver Waterproof Lubricant, Milacron (1 Each)
randyc
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
- Location
- Eureka, CA, USA
The grandkids are already drooling idiots so that didn't influence the carefully considered decision to order the $5 (AND free shipping, LOL) tube of the stuff as I admired my never-used carbide half-center.
Thanks Monarchist, didn't know about this stuff and interested to see how it compares to my STP-based snake oil.
P.S. Just noticed that my previous post on the topic was fricked up, I wrote "....... Good dead centers for a #2 taper are not expensive and good ones nearly universally produce better work than live chucks. Buy one with a carbide tip and try it...."
Obviously "live chucks" should have been "live centers".
Forestgnome
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2008
- Location
- Californeeeah
In my experience if it looks like the tailstock center is moving away from the workpiece, the workpiece is probably sliding into the chuck. Either turn a shoulder on the workpiece so it's butted up against the jaws, or make a witness mark on the piece so you can be sure it's not moving into the chuck. "Looks" can be deceiving.
