Royal 5C collet closer on an Emco Super 11?
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    Default Royal 5C collet closer on an Emco Super 11?

    I currently have a Royal MT5 to 5C adapter and draw tube. To mount a 3 or 4 jaw on the machine I have to knock out the adapter from behind.

    If I get a Royal collet closer how do you remove the adapter to mount a chuck? Do you have to completely remove the whole assembly?

    Surely there's a simpler solution?

    Here's the instruction sheet: https://xa.yimg.com/df/Super11UsersG...&type=download

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I currently have a Royal MT5 to 5C adapter and draw tube. To mount a 3 or 4 jaw on the machine I have to knock out the adapter from behind.

    If I get a Royal collet closer how do you remove the adapter to mount a chuck? Do you have to completely remove the whole assembly?

    Surely there's a simpler solution?

    Here's the instruction sheet: https://xa.yimg.com/df/Super11UsersG...&type=download
    Yes, you'll have to completely remove the whole assembly. Fortunately it's only one pin, retained by gravity, takes seconds.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails super.jpg  

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    I have seen some collet adapters and other tooling that was threaded so a spanner could turn the nut/ring to pull the tooling from the taper.

    But as far as I can tell, yeah, you pretty much have to remove the taper adapter, either from the front with a finger type puller, or from the back, so the assembly has to be pulled off.

    Have not looked too closely at mine. Can you hook the adapter from the front and use a slide hammer to pull it out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I currently have a Royal MT5 to 5C adapter and draw tube. To mount a 3 or 4 jaw on the machine I have to knock out the adapter from behind.

    If I get a Royal collet closer how do you remove the adapter to mount a chuck? Do you have to completely remove the whole assembly?

    Surely there's a simpler solution?

    Here's the instruction sheet: https://xa.yimg.com/df/Super11UsersG...&type=download
    Post 2 covered it.

    The Royal is faster to change (and simpler) than ANY of the alternatives that I have here are.

    10EE being tight on bore, I didn't want a drawtube, DID want larger-bore collets in addition to 5C.

    All my collet systems are "nose-only" mounts, D1-3 for the 10EE, Cazenueve's own triple cone screws for the HBX-360.

    Not all that big a deal to swap, but all of those take longer to clear for a chuck thana rear-lever & drawtube Royal, and longer-yet for the "loop" nose-closers (Hardinge 2J, Burnerd multisize) that have a counter-torque anchor mount as well.

    The only system I am aware of that has easier changeover might be a handWHEEL drawtube (no anchor linkage) on a "native" closer-taper spindle.

    Those one need not necessarily remove at all to mount a chuck.

    On which basis ... if you have bore & taper to clear it, could you shop-fab a nose with 5C closure set far enough back into it, no flange, that it could stay in place, chuck put on / taken off without interference?

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    Hey Terry, I've got a Royal closer and tube assembly I was looking to throw on my Super 11 before I sold it. Let me know if your interested and I'll take some pics.

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    Hardinge recommends removing the lever closer assembly when using chucks on their lathes. And that is on lathes that have spindles that take the collets directly, without a separate adapter. The later lathes have a single 1/2" pivot pin with a knurled knob on top, so it is a quick job to remove the closer assembly.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Question Boy View Post
    Yes, you'll have to completely remove the whole assembly. Fortunately it's only one pin, retained by gravity, takes seconds.
    Exactly what I was looking for, thanks! 90% of what I do is with 5C collets so it looks like this is gonna work for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by trevj View Post
    I have seen some collet adapters and other tooling that was threaded so a spanner could turn the nut/ring to pull the tooling from the taper.

    But as far as I can tell, yeah, you pretty much have to remove the taper adapter, either from the front with a finger type puller, or from the back, so the assembly has to be pulled off.

    Have not looked too closely at mine. Can you hook the adapter from the front and use a slide hammer to pull it out?
    Was wondering also if there was a way to pull it out from the front but if it's one pin, hey...

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    On which basis ... if you have bore & taper to clear it, could you shop-fab a nose with 5C closure set far enough back into it, no flange, that it could stay in place, chuck put on / taken off without interference?
    Again, one pin ain't gonna kill me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    Hey Terry, I've got a Royal closer and tube assembly I was looking to throw on my Super 11 before I sold it. Let me know if your interested and I'll take some pics.
    Have you sold it already? Would love some pix, please send them to: [email protected] Thanks!

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    Well I just bought one off FleeBay, hope the Super 11 and the CD version share the same spindle.

    Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Well I just bought one off FleeBay, hope the Super 11 and the CD version share the same spindle.

    Any ideas?
    I looked in my 1982 USA Maximat Super 11 sales brochure today and saw that the USA version has a D1-4 spindle nose. All the pictures show a drilled flange with a note that the picture does not show the USA version. So, I wonder what they sold in Canada.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I looked in my 1982 USA Maximat Super 11 sales brochure today and saw that the USA version has a D1-4 spindle nose. All the pictures show a drilled flange with a note that the picture does not show the USA version. So, I wonder what they sold in Canada.

    Larry

    Mine has a D1-4 spindle too, got it from an estate in Milwaukee.

    They both take the same 1/2 MT5 to 5C adapter (part #184022), probably the only difference might be the length of the draw tube. If so I can work with that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Have you sold it already? Would love some pix, please send them to: [email protected] Thanks!
    Sorry my response was a bit confusing. I've sold the Super 11 but still have the collet closer and drawtube (needs to be cut to proper length). I'll send pics over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Mine has a D1-4 spindle too, got it from an estate in Milwaukee.

    They both take the same 1/2 MT5 to 5C adapter (part #184022), probably the only difference might be the length of the draw tube. If so I can work with that...
    Mine came out of a school that was worried about having to pay to have it removed. Pretty sure it never was used.

    Of all the things that it DID come with, it was missing the bracket and base for the mounting of the lever draw tube assembly.

    I was figuring to use an aircraft style Pip Pin for one of the links, but if the original just used gravity... probably good enough, eh?

    Mine is a D1-4 camlock spindle as well, and I an pretty sure that those ones actually ended up with a quite larger diameter bore than the DIN spindle models, with the chucks mounted by bolts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    Sorry my response was a bit confusing. I've sold the Super 11 but still have the collet closer and drawtube (needs to be cut to proper length). I'll send pics over.
    Super, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevj View Post
    Mine is a D1-4 camlock spindle as well, and I an pretty sure that those ones actually ended up with a quite larger diameter bore than the DIN spindle models, with the chucks mounted by bolts.
    Yup, D1-4 is 35 mm I/D and the only one that will take 5C collets. I also have a Bratt Bernerd "multi size" collet chuck for mine that goes to 1.5".

    IIRC the threaded spindle common in Europe is only 25 mm I/D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Yup, D1-4 is 35 mm I/D and the only one that will take 5C collets.
    D1-3 also clears Royal and other 5C drawtubes. The closer just has to sit a skosh further TS-ward.

    Lots of D1-3 even use 2J, so long as with Sjogren or "loop" nose-closers. Same again with ER 40, Rubberflex, and Burnerd Multisize.

    Continuous bar stock hits the bore limit before max collet size, all of those above 5C bore size, so pre-cuts only, though.

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    This could be a solution, an adjustable for run-out 5c spindle nose chuck.
    I copied this from items sold at MSC for CNC lathes. Very simple to construct, with the benifit of accurately using cheap collets. Those spindle bore inserts sre a problem to remove and install all the time.


    I designed this unit so as I can machine the backsides of engine valves, with its extended nose, it adjusts similar to a Buck adjust true jaw chuck.

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