Runout on small lathe and mill
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Runout on small lathe and mill

    I have a small mill/drill and an old Dalton-4 lot 6 toolroom lathe. I had to use the lathe to turn down a .169" pin to .555", and didn't have a chuck that would grab a pin that small. My first idea was to buy an Albrecht drill chuck from Ebay, and I was able to win one for $72. I got one with a 1/2" shank, figuring that if I had any runout after mounting it in the lathe's 1/2" 3C collet, I could use a 4-independent-jaw chuck to grab it and dial it in. I mounted it in the collet, and there was just-visible runout. Just out of curiosity, I mounted the chuck/pin in the mill, and there was runout there too. Just to make sure it wasn't the chuck, I mounted a 1/4" gauge pin in a collet, and again there was runout in the mill, thus ruling out the drill chuck as being the problem (this chuck lists for almost $600 new, and is supposed to be suited for milling).

    To sum it up, I have runout in both machines. Admittedly, the mill is just a toy, but I live in a condo, and for the time being it will have to suffice. I have a full-size lathe in addition to the Dalton, but I got it for free, and was motivated to take it apart and drag it into the basement. I've made a bunch of improvements, like reinforcing the column and base using 1/2" steel plate, an inexpensive DRO, belt drive, some alterations that remove lash, and some other improvements that are known to give this a boost in stiffness, repeatability, etc. The lathe has babbitt bearings that I scraped with a bearing knife and Prussian Blue; a job that took a few dozen hours.

    My question is: is there any way to reduce or eliminate the runout in these? Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,929
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    801
    Likes (Received)
    4685

    Default

    I will just take a guess that the mill/drill is a low quality Asian import that was not accurate when new and probably not practical to make into a precision machine tool. But it is a hobby, right? So give it a shot.

    I will also guess that the Dalton lathe is old and worn. If the lathe was precise when new, there are talented people, perhaps you, who could rebuild it, replacing bad parts with better new parts. If the Dalton was not that great when new, well, see above.

    Larry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    94

    Default

    All lathes and mills have run out. Even new ones. Without knowing how much run out you are talking about, I can't offer any advice.

    My 16x40 lathe has .0003" run out at the spindle.

    My Bridgeport mill has .0002" run out at the spindle.

    If your expecting .000000000000001" run out, it's not ever gonna happen!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    809
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    211
    Likes (Received)
    326

    Default

    Check the runout directly in the spindle nose on each, is it still too much?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    22,083
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jodifu6274 View Post
    I had to use the lathe to turn down a .169" pin to .555", and didn't have a chuck that would grab a pin that small.
    I think you have more problems than the chuck.....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,008
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    302
    Likes (Received)
    1655

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I think you have more problems than the chuck.....
    What you've never made a pin larger by turning it down on a lathe in a drill chuck?

  7. Likes tdmidget, digger doug, TeachMePlease liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,343
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1153
    Likes (Received)
    493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    What you've never made a pin larger by turning it down on a lathe in a drill chuck?
    Yeah when it caught my glove and I found myself wrapped around the pin like a bacon hotdog.

    Jokes, jokes.



    To the op; The lathes cool, the mill drill is a garbage toy that’s not welcome here.

    Good luck

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Modesto, CA USA
    Posts
    8,656
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1660

    Default

    On my little Jet mill/drill I repalced the main bearings with new ones from ebay. Probably designed for trucks but a good brand, Nachi? the runout was reduced. The old bearings sounded cruchy. I did not think it would be worth while to pay for quality bearings for such a lightweight mill.
    It now runs well enough and I saved several hundred dollars towards a real mill.
    Bill D
    Bill D

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    6,749
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10859
    Likes (Received)
    3243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    On my little Jet mill/drill I repalced the main bearings with new ones from ebay. Probably designed for trucks but a good brand, Nachi? the runout was reduced. The old bearings sounded cruchy. I did not think it would be worth while to pay for quality bearings for such a lightweight mill.
    It now runs well enough and I saved several hundred dollars towards a real mill.
    Bill D
    Bill D

    Could have welded an eye for an anchor line and saved even more if you have a boat, though boat owners don't usually think like that.

  11. Likes Homebrewblob liked this post
  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    What you've never made a pin larger by turning it down on a lathe in a drill chuck?
    I mistyped. It's .169 to .155

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post



    To the op; The lathes cool, the mill drill is a garbage toy that’s not welcome here.

    Good luck
    Oh please....

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laverda View Post
    All lathes and mills have run out. Even new ones. Without knowing how much run out you are talking about, I can't offer any advice.

    My 16x40 lathe has .0003" run out at the spindle.

    My Bridgeport mill has .0002" run out at the spindle.

    If your expecting .000000000000001" run out, it's not ever gonna happen!
    I'm digging through the basement, looking for my indicators/base to get an exact reading. it's been a while since I messed with this stuff. I'm guessing it will be significant, because I could see it just looking at it. Meanwhile, I did an experiment: I put a .250 gauge pin in a collet and mounted it in the mill. No visible runout. (of course, once I find the indicators, I may find something significant). Then, with it still in, I grabbed the other end with the albrecht chuck, and the shank end was visibly wobbling; very slightly, but definitely. I noticed that it has a jacobs shank in it that's beat to Hell, so I'm wondering if it was a botched job with a shank that wasn't originally there? I'll call Albrecht about this. So, the mill might be okay, but the lathe has problems. I'll post the actual readings soon.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    There's a Dalton forum, where people with this lathe discuss the care and use of the various versions of it. Apparently, it was a quality machine that's worth the time and expense of restoring it. I'll consult with them about this problem. As far as the "toy"; it's all I have until my VA service-connected disability goes from 90% to 100%. At that point, we're getting a house with at least a 2 car garage, and I'll be putting a Bridgeport in it, along with the fuselage of my plane project that's at a standstill due to lack of space. Meanwhile, I'm stuck with what I have.

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I'm going to try to figure out how to do this if it turns out that mine actually has runout. I need to find my measuring stuff.

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    4,515
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    1639

    Default

    Runout is of no consequence with hobby machines,provided its not accompanied by bad chatter.....In a hobby lathe ,runout mainly affects finish....you wont get a shiny finish ,but otherwise the work will be unaffected......As for your milling machine,a bit of spindle runout is compensated by the small cutters used in low power machines.....the cutters always deflect a certain amount,and the cut taken by each flute of a small cutter is self adjusting....Again the only loss with a bit of spindle runout is shiny finish with a face mill.

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    What you've never made a pin larger by turning it down on a lathe in a drill chuck?
    Surely. But the stupid low-grade vinyl electical tape wound around it to increase the diameter didn't perform worth a loose s**t!


  19. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jodifu6274 View Post
    I'm going to try to figure out how to do this if it turns out that mine actually has runout. I need to find my measuring stuff.
    If you are living off a service-connected disability? What you "need to find" is some place where cost of living and cost of SPACE is more affordable than Connectifucked.

    Dad's 100% wasn't actually germane, save for full VA hospital health coverage.

    He had clocked a GS12-step 10 @ 36 years combined Federal Service retirement (August of 1967..) .. in spite of it.

    Then took up Airstream vagabonding based off a couple of hundred acres of West Virginia farm .. and five gas wells .. as his "hobby". Cashed-out in his 92d year, 34 years retired off 36 contributing, Mum running another fifteen years as survivor at a higher pension, half-rations, than he had ever earned in work.

    Speaking of why taxes are what they are..

    It will be your tax man as can afford better tools in fifth highest tax burden out of the whole nation in Connecti-cut-yer-balzoff.

    Virginia, for comparison, ranks 37th. And is the only "blue" state in the top five gaining population from those fleeing from "bluer" states. Go figure it ain't required to be a raving lunatic nor a looter to have a simple difference of opinion with a neighbour and each just go do their damned job?

    Back to where you came in?

    Your Albrecht is improperly mounted. Not only are they a far better keyless chuck than that? So is a San Ou CME "Harvest".. a Llambrich, Barcelona "Hybrid" semi-Clone (uses a different type of spanner..) out of ta da ..China.

    Treat the disease. Not just the symptom.

    Pull it off the mount. See to the tail and the "JT" taper. Try again, better and more carefully. NEW JT taper tails are not terribly expensive.

    Marginal goods or no, your mill-drill's spindle & bearings prolly aren't all that bad, either. They just have shoddy factory alignment, then FLEX too much in actual loading for their reputation to be worth a damn.

  20. #18
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
    Posts
    5,605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    815

    Default

    termite, tell us all about you Burk mill! Or better yet, how about a photo!
    Really termite, you are closing in on 20000 of you fucking worthless post like above without a single stinkin picture!
    Here is the deal termite, you start you first thread, and show a picture of your Burk mill, and I will quit hammering you for being a troll, liar, and general lousy fuck!
    This is your chance sparky! If you dont, I am most certainly to turn the screws tighter on you....


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •