Saved a Voest 17x59 lathe from the scrap heap!
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  1. #1
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    Default Saved a Voest 17x59 lathe from the scrap heap!

    Im super excited! This lathe was going to the scrap yard. I paid 445.00 for it. 55.00 for a Uhaul trailer to haul it home! I think its a DA 220? What a beautiful machine. Probably from the 70s or 80s.
    I need help with two things:
    1. Does anyone have manuals for the square bodied Voest Lathes?
    2. What is the best way to power the three phase motor at home? The motor is 3.6 kw. It is currently wired for 440 three phase. I want to wire it to 220 three phase and then power it by single phase 220. Ive heard VFD is the best way. What size VFD? They say to use double the horse and amp VFD that the motor is rated for? Any help is appreciated. Cant wait to get this beauty running.
    Im trying to figure out how to get pics on there.
    Thanks.
    -Rich.

    76b08860-65c7-4223-81cc-62049e2c964e.jpg
    eec690c7-adc6-4a2a-a7a1-db22345ea7db.jpg
    9d1c90fc-4073-43da-b0d2-2c20e6680181.jpgb7a7111b-8aad-4527-93c2-e900b573f5c3.jpg28cae86d-9d88-4963-bb8f-1e927119dc06.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Default It looks like you have about a 5 hp motor

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMicroscope View Post
    Im super excited! This lathe was going to the scrap yard. I paid 445.00 for it. 55.00 for a Uhaul trailer to haul it home! I think its a DA 220? What a beautiful machine. Probably from the 70s or 80s.
    I need help with two things:
    1. Does anyone have manuals for the square bodied Voest Lathes?
    2. What is the best way to power the three phase motor at home? The motor is 3.6 kw. It is currently wired for 440 three phase. I want to wire it to 220 three phase and then power it by single phase 220. Ive heard VFD is the best way. What size VFD? They say to use double the horse and amp VFD tgat the motor is rated for? Any help is appreciated.
    Im trying to figure out how to get pics on there.
    Thanks.
    -Rich.
    It looks like you have about a 5 hp motot. I converted my lathe from a 2 hp single phase to a 5 hp 3 phase years ago .It is controlled by a Delta 3.7 kw 5 hp vfd with 220 v single phase input. It has worked flawlessly.Mine is a 14 inch lathe.Your 17 inch lathe might be better off with a 71/2 hp. If you are trying to make a living with this lathe ,I would go with more power.But 5 hp will cut a lot of metal.If the lathe is really nice and you got it so cheap,I would spend exta money for 7 1/2 hp. Motors come up on craigslist for cheap money in St louis.good luck Edwin Dirnbeck

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    Why fuck around? Those "engineers" don't know shit. Put 100 HP on it.

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    So you say to replace the original 3 phase, 5 horse for a larger 7 1/2?
    If i leave the original motor, just use a VFD with the same rating as the motor? Many different articles online say to use a VFD with double the rating of the mitor.
    Also, im in search of pdf manuals please.
    Thanks.

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    I own that lathe's cousin a DA 210 I bought new in 1971. It came with a face mounted 5 HP motor. Look that the transmission in the headstock pedestal. If it has a horizontal arrangement it's intended for a 4 KW motor. Of the casting is round it's intended for a larger motor. Both have 9 speeds in 2 ranges of three gear ratios each. They have the same ratios and lever positions. The only difference is the round trans is beefier than the flat one.

    I have the books somewhere but they are conveniently on line in PDF format. I'll look later and see if I can find a link. It's a good machine but not built for heavy duty service. If it's significantly worn but not damaged it's definitely worth a home rebuild. Since it's anew to you, be sure to conduct a thorough survey of conditon and document all that you find. George Schleissinger in "Testing Machine Tools" has included convenient inspection reports and procedures in blank form for your first records. These are important references for later planning repairs and improvements.

    I fuilly agree with Edwin that the best means of running your lathe is to install a VFD between your residential electrical service and the existing machine motor - which is not quite 5 HP but plenty adequate for everything but heavy roughing. You can connect the apron lever switch wiring to the VFD inputs and mount a speed control pot somewhere on the headstock. DO NOT use the VFD like a phase converter and switch the VFD output to the motor leads. That's a slow but certain way to kill your VFD.

    Wire your VFD to the apron reversing switch. If you open the electrical enclosure, you will see a three conductor loomed cable in the upper right of the control enclosure. One termnal is common, one is FWD the other REV. Ring them out and connect to the VFD control input terminals making the appropriate VFD parameter settings. I'f you think of electrical work as an exercise in controlling "magic smoke" this might be a good time to recruit a local electrical mentor

    I'll see if I can find you those links.

    Early returns:

    Voest : Machinery Manuals | Parts Lists | Maintenance Manual | Service Instructions | Schematics

    A brochure:

    http://www.weiler.de/uploads/media/D...e_Englisch.pdf

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    I can't tell much about the skates that you have it setting on but I would be very careful. High center of gravity on a very small footprint. I'm assuming they are all steel with appropriate load bearing capacity. If not I would carefully set the lathe on the ground. Even if appropriate weight bearing move slowly, it wouldn't take much to tip it over. I would get it close to where I intended to set it up and get it on the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Why fuck around? Those "engineers" don't know shit. Put 100 HP on it.
    I believe he was making the point that if you run a VFD you need to de-rate the motor HP so you have to up-size the motor to compensate.

    I have a large bandsaw that was upfitted with a VFD based on manufacturers recommendations. They went from a 3HP motor to a 7.5HP motor to get the same performance.

    In general, I think VFD's are dumb for the purpose of converting single to 3 phase. I recommend a 15 or 20HP RPC.

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    Unless electrical work is a strong suit of yours I would keep the original motor and consider powering it up with a rotary phase converter. Of course you still need to switch it over to the 220 low voltage and probably change The heaters if not adjustable. The 5hp will be plenty strong and you can add other 3ph. equipment to your system.

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    A motor on a vfd will develop full nameplate HP. A motor on a static phase converter will develop about 2/3 of nameplate power.
    The vfd derating thing has to do with the input design. Some are rated for single phase input, many are rated for three phase input and these have to be rated for about 1.5 vfd hp to run 1hp motor.
    Note some vfds will not work if they do not have all three phases input. This is a safety feature in case the service loses one leg of the three phase.
    My lathe came with a 120 volt single phase input VFD that can output 1hp 220 volts three phase. It ran the 3hp motor but only at a reduced hp which was more then enough for most of my little jobs.
    AS far as the motor I would just use it and decide latter if it needs to be bigger. You will find any vfd over 3hp is going to jump up in price. Consider buying the bigger vfd just in case since you have to buy one anyway.
    There is no disadvantage to running a motor off of a bigger then needed vfd since all the parameters have to set for each motor anyway.
    Bill D

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    I agree with you. The dollies its on are narrow. Very tipsy looking. The wheels can handle the load though. This is the way we were able to roll the lathe off the uhaul trailer. We pulled the lathe off the trailer with a come along. One in front to pull it and one in the back to keep the the lathe back. We pulled forward one inch and released the bavk one one inch. Took us 5 hours to get it off. Slid it into the garage and havent been able to move it since.
    Im currently in the process of welding up heavy angle iron to make custom dollies.
    In the custom dollies,the wheels will be at the far corners of the pedestals. Hopefully then ill be able to slowly inch it towards where it will stay.
    Car floor jack lifted it.
    A 1 ton engine hoist would not lift it.
    Bought a two ton off craigslist yesterday and it lifted the lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I believe he was making the point that if you run a VFD you need to de-rate the motor HP so you have to up-size the motor to compensate.

    I have a large bandsaw that was upfitted with a VFD based on manufacturers recommendations. They went from a 3HP motor to a 7.5HP motor to get the same performance.

    In general, I think VFD's are dumb for the purpose of converting single to 3 phase. I recommend a 15 or 20HP RPC.
    Wrong. A VFD made for single phase will develop full motor ratings at the shaft with no need for de-rating and hocus pocus. A three phase only VFD will work from single phase provided the VFD is rate 1 1/2 time the motor HP and it's parameters are set to agree with the motor name plate. The max HP motor output is seldom required for most home shop lathes where cuts are usually light. If you desire max performance stock reduction, some accommodation will be required when working between 43 and 60 Hz. Regardless, modern VFDs are software protected from overload and overheating. If you run them over max ratings, they will automatically limit power tot hee motor or if pushed go into "default." It's almost impossible to screw a VFD up provided the various parameters are properly set and ventilation and power quality are up to snuff.

    One thing: most VFD on the used (US) market are intended for 460 volt service If your service is 230 single phase be sure the VFD you select is rated for 230 volts.

    An RPC is a good suggestion if you have several three phase powered machine tools. Much cheaper particularly if you make your own. You don't have to modify your machine tools' electrical controls, just make sure the motors and control transformer are connected for 230 volts and the control circuit is connected to the line legs and not the "generated" leg of the RPC.

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    Thank you.
    You already answered my next question,
    Its ok to run the motor off a higher rated vfd.
    I will get a little larger vfd to be safe.
    I havent even heard of a vfd untill yesterday.
    What parameters do i have to input on the vfd? I cant tell what the RPM is on this motor label.
    I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me!!!

    .

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    Ok. So i need to find a single phase 230v vfd which is basically a phase conver too.
    Two hot wires and ground go in and 3 hot wires and ground come out.
    The rating of 7.5hp should be enough to handle tge 5 horse motor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMicroscope View Post
    Thank you.
    You already answered my next question,
    Its ok to run the motor off a higher rated vfd.
    I will get a little larger vfd to be safe.
    I havent even heard of a vfd untill yesterday.
    What parameters do i have to input on the vfd? I cant tell what the RPM is on this motor label.
    I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me!!!

    .
    The cheapest way to get running would be to put a static converter on it. This will get you running asap with minimum wiring. If/when you need the full HP of the motor you should have been able to find a suitable 3 phase motor to use as an idler for the RPC you will make with the static converter.
    Not against vfd but just throwing out a possibilty.

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    I can't stress enough how easy it is to tip a lathe over. A pry bar/ Johnson bar and steel bars for rollers(1"or less) is much preferred over a floor Jack and tippy skates. Not saying this to bust your chops just don't want to see you with a busted lathe and possibly badly hurt. As always don't get in place for it to fall on you and certainly don't try to catch it if it goes.

    I would also highly recommend getting a friend knowledgeable and comfortable with this type of electrical work. Per your on admission you just heard of a vfd yesterday. As mentioned a static converter will get you running quicker and cheaper. Since it came from a scrap yard you might want to access it's condition without to much investment up front. Eventually my vote would be for an rpc (rotary phase converter). Read up on them.

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    Hello Forrest Addy.

    Im curious, in 1971, what did your DA210 cost?

    I would so appreciate the manuals you mentioned. My google searches turned up nothing.

    Tommorow, i will open the motor pedestal and take photos of the gearbox to see wich one it has.

    I am carefully studying the advise you gave about proper wiring. It is over my head.
    There is a switch on the left pedestal that has a 0 and 1. What does that do?

    The carriage has a lever by the feed that supposedly is the traveling on and off switch. Maybe reverse too?


    I will photograph the the wiring.


    What i was going to do is just take the plug tip off the main cord and connect the 3 hots and ground to the vfd. Wouldnt the original wiring in the pedestal then work normally?
    Thank you.
    -Rich.

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    Youre 100% correct!
    Its very tipsy now.
    I pryed it like you said with a 2x4. Bad move!
    It was super scary moving this lathe. We all guessed it weighed 1300 pounds. We were so very wrong.
    Weighs 2900lbs!
    My jeep wrangler weighs 3200lbs.
    Cant believe this lathe weighs as much as a car!
    The guy who was going to scrap it was going to get 11 cents a pound since its good quality cast iron as opposed to 7 cents a pound for regular steel.
    He would have got 330.00 bucks for it.
    I paid 445.00.
    Has a 3 jaw Rohm chuck.
    # 20 jacobs chuck at the tailstock.
    Live center.
    Original stop for the carriage.
    Original chuck key for both chucks.
    Deal of the century.
    Took 5 years off my life trying to get it home and in the garage though.
    Love this site and all the great help from such knowledgeable people.
    Thank you.

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    I have had good luck with these guys on VFDs. Electric Motors | Motor Controls | VFD | AC Drive

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    For example, would this be the correct vfd for this application?


    Error Page | eBay

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    Change the heaters? Where would i find those?


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