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Scotchbrite on gasket surface--did I mess up big time?

nxd

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Hi all,

This is my first time posting in this forum, but I've lurked around before.

I recently did some maintenance on a relatively large import lathe (> 15" swing), which consisted of draining the old oil and refilling the gearboxes with new.

But, after doing this, I remembered reading about an oil filter in the manual and thought myself an idiot for not looking at the filter to see if it was something that could be replaced before I changed the oil (nearly two gallons worth).

So, I went to remove an access cover to get to the filter, and found that it was held on with a paper gasket and presumably some kind of RTV. The paper gasket came apart and left behind a mess. I scraped most of it away with a razor blade, but couldn't get the thing residual layer of RTV(?) off, so I used a scotch brite pad. I tried to be careful to cover the opening where the cover plate was (the opening led straight into the oil reservoir, about 1/4" above the oil level), but I'm fairly certain that I probably got bits of scotch brite "dust" into the oil.

I scooped out some of the oil that had obvious bits of dust in it, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't just dump all the (brand new...) oil and re-fill. I'm worried that the small amount of aluminum oxide in the scotch brite pad could get lodged into some bearings and do damage.

Am I over-reacting? Should I just slap it back together and call it a day, or should I dump 2 gallons of fresh oil and re-fill?
 
The fact that you are asking tells me you are concerned about it. If you are concerned, then change out the oil. I find few things worse then doubt when it comes to a job I have done.
 
GM has done testing that showed the abrasive grit left by these pads is not captured by the filters in use on car engines and won’t warranty repairs where this occurs. I don’t know what the filter performance differences are between your filter and the filters commonly used on their engines. I would err on the side of caution.
Joe
 
That's interesting, as I was just going to suggest filtering the oil. Now, sandblast sand is something else- I once wrecked an overhead cam cylinder head and cam because I didn't get all the sand out of a passageway.
 
You are not going to be happy until you change the oil.

Just do it and you will feel a lot better, we have all done similar, best get rid of that doubt.
 
I was also wondering if the oil could be filtered with a better filter, externally, of course. But that may be time consuming and more expensive than just replacing the oil.

That grit is going to settle in the oil reservoir so most of it will not be in the oil. So, in any case, do clean out the oil reservoir well. That may be a real pain to do and you may not get it all.

Another thought would be to install a better filter on the machine. And change it several times in the near future and regularly after that.

PS: Scotch-Brite comes in at least eight different grits. You should know what grit yours is before selecting a filter for it.



That's interesting, as I was just going to suggest filtering the oil. Now, sandblast sand is something else- I once wrecked an overhead cam cylinder head and cam because I didn't get all the sand out of a passageway.
 
Scotchbrite typically does NOT lose larger particles, because they are encapsulated in the plastic. But the particles DO break down as they are used, and will shed small particles. I cannot suggest particle size, and have no idea whether the oil filter in any particular item will catch them or not.

The 3M website may have some information on particle breakdown, if you are sufficiently interested.

If you want to have no doubts, drain the oil, possibly do a kerosene flush of the area you were working on, and then refill.
 
What color Scotch Brite pad did you use? Maroon has aluminium oxide, finer grits have silicon carbide.

Go ahead and drain the oil into three 1 gallon milk jugs. Then wait and see what settles to the bottom. Use a funnel with filter and swap the oil from jug to jug. Filter paper can be taken from a pleated water filter. I smallest particle size filter I can easily get is 5 micron. The next sizes up are something like 30, 50.

Run oil in machine and change out filter with a new one.

It's an import so don't worry about it. I have known people who would filter the oil with a funnel and a old sock and call it done.
 
I would drain, flush with Kerosene and use a paint filter to see if you get any large chunks out with the flush.
 
I use a solvent on RTV,usually petrol shrivels it ,if not,then try acetone......the stuff usually forms a loose mass in a few seconds,and rubs off ....Anyway,with these zero pressure closure gaskets,there is no need to do more than slather on more rtv,and reinstall the plate.and yes Ive heard all the rtv stories....and even seen a Cat 12 grader motor with so much beads in the sump it blocked the oil pump screen......fortunately the scavenge ,so it didnt do any damage......but the pop rivets they used as pins in the clutch fell out and locked up the oil pump,shearing the key in the big scavenge pump gear.
 
Wow, thanks everyone for all the responses!

i suppose that was why they put in a filter in the first place....
how much did the oil cost?
how much will a new set of bearings cost?

My thought exactly... about $50 of oil vs... well, I'm not sure, but at my place of work it would be hard to justify working on the gearbox/spindle bearings...

I ended up draining the oil and re-filling with new. I did not do a kerosene flush, which I regret--the bottom of the gearbox is uneven (from the casting) and so draining the oil did not carry with it much in the way of "sediment" on the bottom of the gearbox, though it hopefully took anything with it that was suspended in the oil.

GM has done testing that showed the abrasive grit left by these pads is not captured by the filters in use on car engines and won’t warranty repairs where this occurs.

This exact issue is what had me worried.

I don’t know what the filter performance differences are between your filter and the filters commonly used on their engines.

The truly disappointing (and mildly disturbing) thing is that the "filter," as I discovered only after taking it out of the machine (as this was not described in the manual) was nothing more than a rectangular piece of brass mesh, about 2x3", covering the inlet. No paper element to speak of; nothing actually serviceable. The "aperture size" of the mesh was maybe ~0.030" +/- 0.010? There were bits of string (???) that the filter had prevented from entering the oil pump, but it isn't stopping any abrasive particles.

Another thought would be to install a better filter on the machine. And change it several times in the near future and regularly after that.

If I had time, I would like to modify the cover plate to permit use of a car engine style oil filter. The cover plate is not just a cover; the oil pickup tube is attached to the cover plate, and the cover plate contains a passage which directs oil to the inlet side of the oil pump. So, a new cover plate could be fashioned which passes the oil through a screw-on filter before it enters the oil pump. Aside from time, though, I'm not sure how much vacuum would be required from the oil pump to be able to pull oil through the filter--i.e., I don't know if the pump is "strong" enough to do this. We also only have manual machines, so it'd take a fair amount of time to make a relatively complicated part like this (more time than I can afford).

That grit is going to settle in the oil reservoir so most of it will not be in the oil. So, in any case, do clean out the oil reservoir well. That may be a real pain to do and you may not get it all.

Reaching in through the cover plate, I wiped down everywhere I could reach with clean rags, until I couldn't see any more deposits on the rags. The first many times that I wiped removed some fine black residue. The interior of the gearbox was painted red, and there was so much black in places that I had thought on first glance that the paint was worn through to the cast iron, but no, the red was still there, just hiding. There was also a fair amount of fine metal shavings, hopefully just from grinding gears (not shifting fully before starting up) and not the sign of e.g., bearing failure. (I did not run the machine between removing the cover plate and draining/re-filling with oil.)

If I had more time, I would have removed the top cover of the gearbox and tried to reach down between the various shafts to reach areas I couldn't get to from the access cover, but I don't honestly think I would have been able to do much more.

PS: Scotch-Brite comes in at least eight different grits. You should know what grit yours is before selecting a filter for it.

What color Scotch Brite pad did you use? Maroon has aluminium oxide, finer grits have silicon carbide.

I was dimly aware of this. The scotch-brite pad that I used was of the green colored variety. I'm not honestly certain what is in this kind; I've read conflicting reports. I assumed aluminum oxide, but every table that I've found which indicates composition does not list the green kind. I think the green kind might be something utterly benign for household use, so maybe I had little to worry about.

Go ahead and drain the oil into three 1 gallon milk jugs. Then wait and see what settles to the bottom. Use a funnel with filter and swap the oil from jug to jug. Filter paper can be taken from a pleated water filter. I smallest particle size filter I can easily get is 5 micron. The next sizes up are something like 30, 50.

I wish I read your comment sooner--I've already disposed of the "old" oil.

It's an import so don't worry about it. I have known people who would filter the oil with a funnel and a old sock and call it done.

I'm trying to keep the fact that it's an import in mind to help prevent losing too much sleep over this. It seems to have relatively few hours on it--the ways seem to have little wear and most everything is pretty "tight," despite not having been well taken care of--I changed the oil because it had been allowed to become incredibly low in every reservoir. (About half the capacity in the main gearbox and 1/4 of what it was supposed to be in the carriage. Even less in the gearbox for the leadscrew.)

I use a solvent on RTV,usually petrol shrivels it ,if not,then try acetone......the stuff usually forms a loose mass in a few seconds,and rubs off

I have yet to try acetone for removing gaskets. I tried CRC Brakleen sprayed on a rag and found that it didn't touch it. I'll try this in the future.

....Anyway,with these zero pressure closure gaskets,there is no need to do more than slather on more rtv,and reinstall the plate.and yes Ive heard all the rtv stories....and even seen a Cat 12 grader motor with so much beads in the sump it blocked the oil pump screen......fortunately the scavenge ,so it didnt do any damage......but the pop rivets they used as pins in the clutch fell out and locked up the oil pump,shearing the key in the big scavenge pump gear.

I made a new paper gasket and put it on dry, figuring the RTV wasn't necessary because the cover plate sits above the oil level (as long as it's not overfilled), and the oil pump inlet has an o-ring for redundancy, so the paper gasket really just is there to stop leaks if either the o-ring fails (not likely) or the gearbox is overfilled.

In hindsight, probably the dumbest thing I did then was try to clean the gasket surface to bare metal--the paper gasket on top of a thin layer of old RTV probably would have been fine in this case. (D'oh!!)

Anyway, thanks again for all the responses. I definitely learned a few lessons from this that I won't forget in the future...
 








 
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