Sealed lead/acid batteries like in Emergency lights question

Milacron · May 30, 2008

Kinda like motorcycle battery but way smaller and sealed... 15 bucks at Lowes....the question is, do you think it matters if these are "upright" or laying on their side, long term. If gel internals I suspect it doesn't matter, but dunno if these things are gel or not...

Got an application where I rather have it sitting on it's side...

Perry Harrington · May 30, 2008

I haven't seen any cautions about keeping SLA or gell cells upright. In fact, the Optima SLA batteries tout that as a feature. I would suspect that their life span could be affected in this situation, but they work. Also, consider that the flash lights don't have a "right side up"...

Milacron · May 30, 2008

Perry Harrington said:
I haven't seen any cautions about keeping SLA or gell cells upright. In fact, the Optima SLA batteries tout that as a feature. I would suspect that their life span could be affected in this situation, but they work. Also, consider that the flash lights don't have a "right side up"...

But what I really need to know if these are indeed gel type batteries. Also, flashlights are irelevant since they use a solid type battery.

dp · May 30, 2008

Batteries for UPS units are cheap on line and can be put on their sides. I have a 2500 watt UPS that has four of them laying flat and they work fine. I would think the Lowes batteries are intended for lawn tools and may not be the best choice for the service you're thinking of.

MechWerks · May 30, 2008

It is really a question best bounced off the manufacturer. Some advertise in all positions and some indicate "this side up". Went through a bit of SLA research a while back to get up to speed and found lots of confliction informaton...solved by picking a manufacturer that stood behind their advertisement (warranty indicated all position).

Milacron · May 30, 2008

dp said:
Batteries for UPS units are cheap on line and can be put on their sides. I have a 2500 watt UPS that has four of them laying flat and they work fine. I would think the Lowes batteries are intended for lawn tools and may not be the best choice for the service you're thinking of.

The Lowes batteries of which I speak are intended for Emergency light signs (as I stated already) As to not being suitable for my use I find that an astounding statement considering no where have I stated what my use actually is.

dp · May 30, 2008

Milacron said:
The Lowes batteries of which I speak are intended for Emergency light signs (as I stated already) As to not being suitable for my use I find that an astounding statement considering no where have I stated what my use actually is.

Well actually, your purpose as stated is to lay them on their side, no? My aquaintance with Lowes batteries is that they are intended for lawn equipment and installed upright. But we may be thinking of different Lowes - I've not seen emergency light signs in the Lowes I'm familiar with but I'm thinking of the Lowes hardware stores here. You are easily astounded by people who are trying to be helpful. That's probably not a good thing.

Milacron · May 30, 2008

dp said:
Well actually, your purpose as stated is to lay them on their side, no? My aquaintance with Lowes batteries is that they are intended for lawn equipment and installed upright. But we may be thinking of different Lowes - I've not seen emergency light signs in the Lowes I'm familiar with but I'm thinking of the Lowes hardware stores here. You are easily astounded by people who are trying to be helpful. That's probably not a good thing.

Lowes building supply is the second largest building supply/hardware store in the USA, so it is expected for folks to know exactly what Lowes of which I speak.

Beaufort, SC is a small town, so the Lowes here is on the small side, so I can't imagine a smaller Lowes somewhere having less inventory than the one here, thus I presume they all have these emergency light batteries.

For for the last time, these are absolutely positively for emergency signs, not for freakin lawn mowers.

Here's a big "forum" tip for you...when you read someone's post, don't immediately think what they say must be wrong because it doesn't agree with whatever vision you happen to get in your head. BELIEVE THEM, assume they know what they are talking about, and take it from there...or not. :rolleyes5:

dp · May 30, 2008

Milacron said:
Lowes building supply is the second largest building supply/hardware store in the USA, so it is expected for folks to know exactly what Lowes of which I speak.

Beaufort, SC is a small town, so the Lowes here is on the small side, so I can't imagine a smaller Lowes somewhere having less inventory than the one here, thus I presume they all have these emergency light batteries.

For for the last time, these are absolutely positively for emergency signs, not for freakin lawn mowers.

Here's a big "forum" tip for you...when you read someone's post, don't immediately think what they say must be wrong because it doesn't agree with whatever vision you happen to get in your head. BELIEVE THEM, assume they know what they are talking about, and take if from there...or not.

Don - I didn't assume you were wrong. And if you look at what you wrote, you said "like in emergency light" batteries. You were generalizing and I gave you some information based on my experience with batteries and with Lowes batteries (which I've purchased and tossed out). There are batteries cheaply available that are specifically designed to lay on their side. Here's a big forum tip for you: Don't be a prick with people who are trying to help and who have even answered your question.

Milacron · May 30, 2008

dp said:
Don - I didn't assume you were wrong. And if you look at what you wrote, you said "like in emergency light" batteries. You were generalizing and I gave you some information based on my experience with batteries and with Lowes batteries (which I've purchased and tossed out). There are batteries cheaply available that are specifically designed to lay on their side. Here's a big forum tip for you: Don't be a prick with people who are trying to help and who have even answered your question.

I was not generalizing, but for some strange reason you interpreted it that way. That type of battery is used for other applications, but at Lowes they are only available for emergency lights.

New forum tip for you, don't call me, or anyone else here a "prick" if they don't deserve it.... or your days here are numbered. Note that I have not called you a "name" of any sort.

Madlab · May 30, 2008

Milacron, I asked our PhD Electrical Engineer and he said Depends on Chemistry of the battery..... but if Gel he felt that would be no problem.
Also stated that most likely most sealed units would be OK. -matt

Milacron · May 30, 2008

Madlab said:
Milacron, I asked our PhD Electrical Engineer and he said Depends on Chemistry of the battery..... but if Gel he felt that would be no problem.
Also stated that most likely most sealed units would be OK. -matt

Thanks Matt. Since the batteries are so relatively cheap it's not a big deal how long they last from a cost standpoint, but for CNC backup, it matters from a PITA standpoint if voltage goes below min spec for paramenter retention too soon.

MechWerks · May 30, 2008

dp...my sympathies. Seems you offered your experience and got stomped for your troubles. Lowes did sell some SLA batteries for use in garden tools (weed whackers). They didn't work well on their sides (leak) and were junk (cheap). I have one of the emergency lights (Lowes)..that currently needs a new battery (dead)...appears it will be better money spent to get a different light.

FWIW...Batteries + (Werker) or Interstate Batteries or similar have good SLA offerings and paperwork to back up their function.

Milacron · May 30, 2008

MechWerks said:
dp...my sympathies. Seems you offered your experience and got stomped for your troubles.

Note I never said he gave bad advice but simply set him straight on what the batteries actually were. If that is "stomping" on someone, it's beyond me how.

The Lowes batteries of which I speak are intended for Emergency light signs (as I stated already) As to not being suitable for my use I find that an astounding statement considering no where have I stated what my use actually is.

MechWerks · May 30, 2008

Not trying to start a fight here...just my experience and move on.

The comment about suitability was directed at position of the battery...as in not suitable for laying on their side not what the battery would power.

I am guessing that the manufacturers of controllers don't expect the machine to last beyond the typical backup batteries they install on their boards...except for us diehards running 20year old machinery.

Milacron · May 30, 2008

MechWerks said:
The comment about suitability was directed at position of the battery...as in not suitable for laying on their side not what the battery would power.

I am guessing that the manufacturers of controllers don't expect the machine to last beyond the typical backup batteries they install on their boards...except for us diehards running 20year old machinery.

I understand the "suitabilty" comment now and regret my reaction to it, however keep in mind he was talking about UPS and lawn machine batteries, not emergency sign batteries...which, since he was unfamiliar with that particular application, could be totally different battery types and therefore a moot point.

Re controllers, each control is different...some use rechargable NiCads, some standard alkyline, some soldered on boards, some in battery cases.... but this manuf used a lead/acid type battery for some reason. Not "on the board" but just stand alone...but mount location so tight it would be easier to lay it on it's side.

For your possible humor, the orignal battery was inside the control CPU box and required dismantling the box mount (loosening 6 hard to reach screws and lowering 20 lb box with ten billion wires in the way

) just to get to the battery...major dopeslap to whoever designed it that way ! :dopeslap:

Mud · May 30, 2008

Milacron said:
For your possible humor, the orignal battery was inside the control CPU box and required dismantling the box mount (loosening 6 hard to reach screws and lowering 20 lb box with ten billion wires in the way ) just to get to the battery...major dopeslap to whoever designed it that way !

Cincinnati Milacron (had to add the Milacron for your benefit) 900 controls use 4 cylindrical sealed lead/acid batteries in a carrier bolted through the side of the control, the side facing the machine of course. Lots of screws to remove and a heavy unit to handle in a less than likely location to R&R the batteries. The batteries are only available from Gates (I didn't know Gates made batteries) and usually are only stocked in one place in the country, and in small quantities and high prices. The GOOD news, is they last almost a whole year before they let the data disappear during a power blip.

Now being 2V each cell, that makes 8V needed for another battery to replace these. I couldn't find a suitable rechargeable 8V battery - If someone knows of one, please let me know.

I solved the problem by brute force on my 2 machines by hooking up PC UPSs to the data backup charging power unit. Now I have a whole 4.5 hrs of blackout time before I lose data.

Mike K · May 30, 2008

"I love these threads. Took only about five posts before
the fur started flyin'."

That's about par for the course when Milacron asks for advice. Asperger's perhaps?

Still doing a great job moderating this forum, though.

MechWerks · May 30, 2008

Don't they all have some kind of vent on them? My hot rod has one of those all position gel batteries and it has two little vent nubs on the top (?) cover. Although they claim the battery can be mounted upside (?) down they indicated not to block the vents.

I think I would be inclinded to run wires to a remote battery box rather than fight a poor design.

We are all here just sharing the knowledge.

Milacron · May 30, 2008

Mudflap said:
. The GOOD news, is they last almost a whole year before they let the data disappear during a power blip.

While that's longer than the offending Phillips 432 control I'm working on here, I've found that Fanuc controls will keep data for way longer than a year, sans power... at least 3 years and maybe up to twice that if a fresh set of (3 standard D cells) batteries is installed before machine disconnect. Just loosen 2 screws on the outside of the machine to replace. Sheesh, why can't everyone be like Fanuc ?

Sealed lead/acid batteries like in Emergency lights question

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