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  1. #81
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    Close to $9.00 material, tooling and shipping so $35.00 is a fair price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I plugged it into the Omax earlier and without optimization the nest came out to 120 based on the file I pulled from grabcad.
    Folks, I am not trying to be difficult as some seem to think. I have crunched these numbers dozens of times over four years. Vespel sheet is not a good deal. If you look on eBay or anywhere else, you will see roughly 90% of the Vespel resold is rod, not sheet.

    Coder, you just gave me a number of 120 units per sheet. I think that is an overly generous number and am happy to set picks on a 10" x 10" piece of paper and post a photo later, upon request. The number I recall was far less than 100 per sheet, as I recall.

    But let's take the overly generous number of 120.

    One thing of importance: Vespel sheets do not come polished. They will have to be sanded down to probably around .60-.65 mm range. There is very little business in that part of the market. The action is 1.0-1.15 mm, so add the cost of the sheet for that thickness.

    But let's stay with 120. 120 units divided by $1000 = $12.00/unit. Someone please confirm my math.

    Okay, the rod at 1.50 mm comes in 38" lengths from DuPont. It costs roughly $3300. I work in millimeters. 38 inches = 965 millimeters. The .031" inch thickness you gave me equates to .7874 millimeters. Let's say we have a kerf loss of 1.0 mm per pick. Is that a fair number? So our total cut per unit is 1.7874 mm.

    Now, divide 965 mm by 1.7874. You get 539 units. Divide 539 units into $3300 and the number I get $6.1224 per unit -- literally half of the sheet cost per unit. And several on here have stated that they could cut Vespel at .50 mm no problem.

    So, to the math I'm running, the unit cost of sheet vs rod is almost exactly double per unit, $12.00 vs $6.00. Someone please tell me where my math is faulty.

    Again, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but these are the hard numbers I've crunched over and over again.

    G Coder, you stated in an earlier post the following: "Now, If your picks are being parted off from full diameter to center then maybe I could see a .020 blade popping but still doable."

    The example above uses a very high 1.0 mm (.040") as kerf loss. Now let's apply the number you have supplied, with a kerf loss of .020 mm. Is this a fair hypothesis.

    Take a 38" (965 mm) rod and now divide by 1.2874 mm. Based upon the numbers you folks have yourself provided, I get a yield on that rod of 750 units. Divide $3300 by 750, I get $4.40 per unit -- more than 60% less cost per unit. $4.40 vs $12.00. Is my math wrong?>

    And let's not forget, folk, that this does not include the labor charge, setup, shop time, etc. We're just comparing yields of sheet vs. rod.

    Would a PDF work to figure the yield on a sheet?

    Thanks Very Much, Everyone. I really appreciate your patience with me. Right now, based upon the numbers you yourselves presented me, I see a unit cost difference between the two forms of the material (rod vs sheet) of roughly $7.50 less per unit of rod vs sheet, $4.40 vs $12.00. What am I missing here?

    #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    “Anyway you go at this, the appropriate kerf loss per unit is about equal to the unit itself. In other words, no matter how you buy the material, if you produce a unit that is, let us say, .040" thick (1.0 mm), you are losing .040" on the cut per unit. I have not seen a viable alternative in all the years I've been looking. I'm willing to be proven wrong. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. ”

    “They come in at 1/4" thickness, unless someone has a source I'm unaware of. ”



    I don’t think I understand where you are coming from.

    Vespel is widely available in .062” sheet.
    And..
    Available direct from the dealer you have stated you use:

    Vespel(R) Polyimide SP-1 Plaque, Vespel(R), Brown, (0.062 in x 10 in x 10 in), Unfilled Polymer | Curbell Plastics


    You just spelled out what others have told you in this thread- lots of waste in slicing this from rod.
    You said you can provide a .dwg
    Have you nested that on sheet to see yield /cost per unit.

    I bet dollar for a donut that those BlueChip picks are cut from sheet.
    I may be very uncharitable with this but you are starting to sound like you are denying some plain realities to get a answer you want to hear.

    I understand you may be invested in you existing process but if you are asking for advice from people who have experience....

    I am not a top dog but I have worked in shops my whole life and owned my own more than twenty years.
    Others here- top in their field.
    Worth listening to.
    TR, I'm not stuck on my current processes, nor am I ignoring or discounting what anyone is saying. I'm looking for the cheapest cost per unit, period. My ego is not attached to doing it "my way." It's just the numbers.

    See immediately above. I just ran the numbers of sheet vs rod. Unless I'm doing the math wrong, unit cost is half for rod that it is for sheet. Please check my math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by #5 ii Alive! View Post
    Mike, here's a quote from a Vespel tech manual regarding temperature:

    "Since SP and ST polyimides do not melt and have no
    glass transition temperature (Tg) or softening point as
    measured by the usual methods, strength and moduli
    decrease with temperature in a nearly linear manner.
    This contrasts to the usual engineering thermoplastic
    which shows a large decrease in these properties as the
    Tg is approached."

    I don't know for certain, but I'm skeptical that 350 F would even make a dent in this stuff. In all my communications with DuPont through the years, as well as all their official machining guides, I don't recall ever seeing an instruction to cut with a hot wire.

    Here's the full PDF. https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/d...ts/h53668e.pdf

    I honesty don't understand the logic of not caring about kerf loss. DuPont sells these in rods 1.50" x 38". Let's say each unit cut is 1.0 mm (.040") thick, with a kerf loss of the same thickness 1.0 mm (.040"). Just to discuss approx numbers, 38 inches equals roughly 965 mm. If we figure 2.0 mm per unit (unit thickness and kerf, combined), the yield is approximately 482 unit. Now take that same piece of stock with the same unit thickness but with half the kerf loss, 0.5 mm (.020"). I come up with 643 units -- same raw material, same shape, same everything.

    Let's say these units sell for $30 each. Here's the breakdown in sales:

    482 x $30.00 = $14,460
    643 x $30.00 = $19,290

    I can't speak for anyone but myself, but $5000 of additional profit off the same piece of material is a huge number. To me. I can't speak for anyone else.

    Is there something I'm not seeing here? Again, happy to be corrected.

    So for me, $5000 is a very good motivator -- the best motivator -- to be obsessed with kerf loss.

    thanks,
    #5
    Site kicked me last time so trying again. I addressed your idea about a custom router bit, which was your original question, but you didn't mention that. The point being you are losing way more material on making the shape then the actual cutting to thickness. Cutting them with anything other than like wire edm (which incidentally will still make something of a .01-.012" kerf if it were possible, yes I know you can get .004 wire, but slower too...), I would say .03-.04" is VERY acceptable, but you don't seem to understand that so I dunno what to tell you....

    edit: Also just looked and a 'standard' hacksaw blade is about .025" thick, plus the uncertainty of a straight cut, bad finish, etc so again, .04" kerf done with some sort of machine tool still puts you ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Site kicked me last time so trying again. I addressed your idea about a custom router bit, which was your original question, but you didn't mention that. The point being you are losing way more material on making the shape then the actual cutting to thickness. Cutting them with anything other than like wire edm (which incidentally will still make something of a .01-.012" kerf if it were possible, yes I know you can get .004 wire, but slower too...), I would say .03-.04" is VERY acceptable, but you don't seem to understand that so I dunno what to tell you....

    edit: Also just looked and a 'standard' hacksaw blade is about .025" thick, plus the uncertainty of a straight cut, bad finish, etc so again, .04" kerf done with some sort of machine tool still puts you ahead.
    Mike, thanks for hanging with me. Yes, anywhere, on any machine, in any fashion that you cut Vespel, whether sheet or rod, you will lose roughly half the material in cutting loss, whether kerf, or routing, or what have you.

    On EDM: This material is "virgin" plastic, meaning it has no additives; it is simply the basic Vespel formula. EDM requires something conductive to cut doesn't it? Other grades of this material -- almost all more expensive -- have added ingredients, not SP-1.

    Mike, above I ran the numbers you folks yourselves gave me; this is your numbers, not mine. I ran the numbers of a rod at 1.50" x 38". Then I ran a sheet the dimension and price of which another member supplied me with here on PM, in this thread. For the rod, I factored in .040" kerf loss for every unit cut.

    I don't care about how much material is lost. The only thing I care about is how much my material cost is when I have a finished, machined pick.

    Here are the results per the numbers the PM members supplied me. Remember, these are the per unit cost using each method:

    Sheet = $12.00 per unit
    Rod = $6.00

    What am I failing to understand here? This is my cost per unit.

    But it's even worse. The person above posted that he could squeeze 120 units out of a piece of sheet 10" x 10". As I suspected, that number is way off.

    The standard guitar pick shape, which is almost 100 years old, was created by a guy named D'Andrea. Fender copied it about 60 years ago and it has become the industry standard. It is called the Fender 351 shape, and it looks like this:


    I just one on a digital caliper, and the dimensions are 1.16" wide by 1.0 " long. According to those measurements, on a sheet that is 10" x 10", I can go 8 units by 10 units wide. That totals eighty units total. Is there a way to populate the sheet with software to increase the number of units? I'm totally ignorant of it that stuff, and PM members would certainly know better than me.

    Somebody please check and correct my math, but if I take those numbers given to me by the members here, which line up very closely to the numbers I've been crunching almost five years now, here is what I get:

    $1000 (material cost) divided by 80 units = $12.00/unit. Somebody please check my math, because I really suck at math. Am I calculating this correctly?

    So my cost per unit comparison is:

    rod = $6.00 per unit
    sheet = $12.00 per unit

    Yes, my material loss is greater because I am cutting a larger piece of material. But my yield per unit is twice that of sheet.

    Thanks,
    #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by #5 ii Alive! View Post
    Mike, thanks for hanging with me. Yes, anywhere, on any machine, in any fashion that you cut Vespel, whether sheet or rod, you will lose roughly half the material in cutting loss, whether kerf, or routing, or what have you.

    On EDM: This material is "virgin" plastic, meaning it has no additives; it is simply the basic Vespel formula. EDM requires something conductive to cut doesn't it? Other grades of this material -- almost all more expensive -- have added ingredients, not SP-1.

    Yes, I was just using it as an example of one of the (that I know of) least loss of material way when slicing something off.

    Mike, above I ran the numbers you folks yourselves gave me; this is your numbers, not mine. I ran the numbers of a rod at 1.50" x 38". Then I ran a sheet the dimension and price of which another member supplied me with here on PM, in this thread. For the rod, I factored in .040" kerf loss for every unit cut.

    I don't care about how much material is lost. The only thing I care about is how much my material cost is when I have a finished, machined pick.

    Unless I completely misread something, you were complaining about losing .040" of material per .040" of product?? **

    Here are the results per the numbers the PM members supplied me. Remember, these are the per unit cost using each method:

    Sheet = $12.00 per unit
    Rod = $6.00

    What am I failing to understand here? This is my cost per unit.

    But it's even worse. The person above posted that he could squeeze 120 units out of a piece of sheet 10" x 10". As I suspected, that number is way off.

    The standard guitar pick shape, which is almost 100 years old, was created by a guy named D'Andrea. Fender copied it about 60 years ago and it has become the industry standard. It is called the Fender 351 shape, and it looks like this:


    I just one on a digital caliper, and the dimensions are 1.16" wide by 1.0 " long. According to those measurements, on a sheet that is 10" x 10", I can go 8 units by 10 units wide. That totals eighty units total. Is there a way to populate the sheet with software to increase the number of units? I'm totally ignorant of it that stuff, and PM members would certainly know better than me.

    I am guessing the member that gave you that number is using some nesting software used for laser or waterjet or something similar which arranges the parts to pack them in as densely as possible...
    Using your dims I can get 63 "comfortably" in a 10x10 so agree that number is off, even if squeezing them to account for something like .020" (don't know if that is realistic or not just WAG) I don't see doubling that qty, but again I am guessing here.


    Somebody please check and correct my math, but if I take those numbers given to me by the members here, which line up very closely to the numbers I've been crunching almost five years now, here is what I get:

    $1000 (material cost) divided by 80 units = $12.00/unit. Somebody please check my math, because I really suck at math. Am I calculating this correctly?

    So my cost per unit comparison is:

    rod = $6.00 per unit
    sheet = $12.00 per unit

    Yes, my material loss is greater because I am cutting a larger piece of material. But my yield per unit is twice that of sheet.

    Thanks,
    #5
    See comments in red.

    ** Post #76 - I honesty don't understand the logic of not caring about kerf loss.

    Not trying to beat you up, but I am getting confused myself....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    See comments in red.

    ** Post #76 - I honesty don't understand the logic of not caring about kerf loss.

    Not trying to beat you up, but I am getting confused myself....

    Mike, we've probably beaten this thing to death. My #1 CONCERN is kerf loss. I have not seen a machine shop, nor spoken to any, who have promised a realistic kerf loss of less than 1.0 mm. Not saying it can't be done, but we have some world-class machine shops out here who work with this material all the time, and they are telling me this is their experience. If someone thinks they can get it down to .50 mm (.020"), believe me, I'm all ears. I already found someone who can do that, but they want $10.00 a unit. Not sure that pencils out, and still considering it.

    But Mike, even factoring in the kerf loss of 1.0 mm, I come out at $6.00 per unit cost to me. Why do I want to cut a sheet that costs me double -- $12.00 per unit -- for the same piece? And now you're saying 63 units on the sheet (I had come up through the years with 64 units = 8 x 8. Using those numbers when cutting sheet I come out at $15 + per unit. Versus $6.00 per unit.

    I guess what you're saying perhaps is $3000 of sheet yields me 197 unit, correct? But $3300 = 534 units. Let's take away 10% to talk apples to apples. If I spend $3000 on rod -- the exact same amount of money -- my yield is 480 units, for the same $3000 investmendt, excluding machining.

    I'm more concerned about sales and profits than kerf loss.

    Sheet: 197 units x $30.00 = $5910
    Rod: 480 x $30.00 = $14,400

    This is for the same $3000 investment in material.

    If we're at an impasse, I thank you for your trip and patience with me.

    Thanks So Much,
    #5

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    #5 ii Alive,

    What kind of laser causes vespel to burn? Typical metal-cutting lasers are in the IR, but there are short-pulse lasers at shorter wavelengths that cut organic materials without burning or thermally evaporating the material - chemical bonds are cut, causing the material to convert directly into a gas. Here is an example:

    UV Laser - Powerful Ablation for Polyimides, Metals, Substrates & More

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    Quote Originally Posted by #5 ii Alive! View Post
    Mike, we've probably beaten this thing to death. My #1 CONCERN is kerf loss. I have not seen a machine shop, nor spoken to any, who have promised a realistic kerf loss of less than 1.0 mm. Not saying it can't be done, but we have some world-class machine shops out here who work with this material all the time, and they are telling me this is their experience. If someone thinks they can get it down to .50 mm (.020"), believe me, I'm all ears. I already found someone who can do that, but they want $10.00 a unit. Not sure that pencils out, and still considering it.

    But Mike, even factoring in the kerf loss of 1.0 mm, I come out at $6.00 per unit cost to me. Why do I want to cut a sheet that costs me double -- $12.00 per unit -- for the same piece? And now you're saying 63 units on the sheet (I had come up through the years with 64 units = 8 x 8. Using those numbers when cutting sheet I come out at $15 + per unit. Versus $6.00 per unit.

    I guess what you're saying perhaps is $3000 of sheet yields me 197 unit, correct? But $3300 = 534 units. Let's take away 10% to talk apples to apples. If I spend $3000 on rod -- the exact same amount of money -- my yield is 480 units, for the same $3000 investmendt, excluding machining.

    I'm more concerned about sales and profits than kerf loss.

    Sheet: 197 units x $30.00 = $5910
    Rod: 480 x $30.00 = $14,400

    This is for the same $3000 investment in material.

    If we're at an impasse, I thank you for your trip and patience with me.

    Thanks So Much,
    #5
    To be honest I have not looked at your numbers. I was just trying to see what you are really looking for....

    Lets look at the rod example (per your figures)-
    1) cheaper material/more yield = less cost per unit
    2) still need a router bit (or outside vendor) to make profile of shape
    3) going to get approximately half the material in waste (1mm part x 1mm loss at cut(kerf))

    I am not trying to sway you either way, again just trying to understand what you are after.

    edit: the real advantage I see is cutting out of sheet seems to me would be less labor intensive, but if you consider your labor "free" ..? Can't argue with that I suppose, but time is money so...
    Also, to clarify, I know nothing of this material. Someone said you can get 1/16" thick sheet, I don't know, but I would think that would be acceptable for thickness vs 1mm (.04")

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    I recall you said you already had a large stock of rod stock, if so then I would use it before buying sheet. So, that said, I would buy a used wood shaper with a good sized spindle (1-1.25" OD). I would buy a head to fit that spindle (app 175 bucks)for either corrugated knife stock, or I would go with a carbide insert head from someone like Great Lakes Carbide. If you use corrugated knife stock, get the knives from Hot Knives in St Louis.

    How to hold it; I would make a fixture to hold it between centers, I would see if I could glue some sacrificial stock to the ends for locating/clamping so you don't lose the expensive stuff because of holes in it.
    Make the fixture so it locates either on a follower bearing, a fence or a slot in the shaper table. Make it symmetrical so you can flip for 2nd pass. As mentioned up thread, be prepared to have to deal with an imperfect transition from 1st pass to 2nd pass.

    Also mentioned earlier, it may be best to make a rough pass and finish pass vs all at once. If that is the case, I'd double up the machines and cutters and set it up so you can use the same fixture to run both passes on 2 machines so you never take the stock out of the fixture until finished.

    This is assuming that the stock blanks are short and rigid enough to withstand the pressure of cutting, especially for the 2nd pass. It may want to chatter, idk.

    I ran a job profiling Nylatron bar into a "+" shape, 10 ft bars at a time though my shaper, usually a batch of 100 bars per. So I have cut a few miles worth of it over the years.

    Option 2, I have a cnc router, so I may do this; buy the custom cutter and holder from Great Lakes Carbide. Make a vac fixture to hold and capture the blank rod and cut the 1st side. Make another vac fixture cut the 2nd side. I could then take multiple passes per side without a change in setup, I could also dial in feed and speed and all the other features a cnc gets you.

    Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by #5 ii Alive! View Post
    Question, Folks:

    Someone earlier in this thread suggested that a wood shaper would be the best solution for this. I found one in my area for cheap cheap cheap.

    Do most of these have a lower speed that a standard router, or perhaps variable speeds?

    Also, are there regular consumer routers out there that have variable speed?

    Thanks,
    #5
    Hello, #5,

    Yes, wood shapers (assuming a true wood shaper, not just a router mounted upside down) generally run a lower speed than a standard router ... generally in the vicinity of 10,000 rpm, vs. 20,000 rpm or so of a standard router.

    And yes, there are many commercial router with variable speed - but the range is probably going to be something like 8,000 - 20,000 rpm.

    IOW, nothing as slow as 800-1000 rpm. A few thoughts: first, how sure are you about that number? I can see where the higher rpm might produce too much heat, leading to melting rather than cutting, but wondered if this is something you have tested or otherwise have hard data on.

    But second thought: in general, a wood shaper will be driven by a separate motor using pulleys and belt (unless it is a low-end bench-top model). That opens up the possibility of changing pulley sizes to get the desired rpm. Depending on the design of the shaper, this might be a relatively simple operation, or it might involve a bit more disassembly. And it is possible that it might not be possible at all, if there are supports or other items in the way that prevent using the needed sizes of pulley - but I would think there is a good chance that you would not run into that problem.

    One other thought: As you and others have described the Vespel, it made me wonder about the longevity of high-speed-steel knives when cutting it. Might have to go with a custom carbide bit instead, which will be a good bit more expensive. Someone mentioned not thinking a shaper could make the entire profile - could be that it would be better to do it in more than one pass. Holding the material securely and safely will be an issue ... On edit: typing too slow - macgyver gave some excellent ideas about holding and cutting it.

    Finally, in response to some of the other posts - those of us who have been around this forum for any length of time have seen people swagger in with a question who clearly have no interest in hearing or understanding the hard-won experience of the professional machinists here. It is always hard to be sure when all we have to work with are words on the screen, of course, but I'm not seeing the OP as being one of those people. What I'm perceiving is someone who is an expert in his particular niche who is genuinely wanting to see if there are better ideas out there, but who also has tried a lot of things that we are suggesting and found them wanting. IOW, in this case, we may be the ones coming up with ideas that make perfect sense to us, but which don't really match the hard realities of this particular niche. Again, I may be wrong, of course ...

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    But it's even worse. The person above posted that he could squeeze 120 units out of a piece of sheet 10" x 10". As I suspected, that number is way off.
    My numbers came from the .DXF file from grab cad for the standard Fender pick. You can believe the 120 piece count if you want to or not, personally I don't care. Seems you sitting down at a table with a 10" square piece of paper laying out a bunch of picks to see how many fit is smarter than my cad system designed just for this.

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    Something I didn't think of until now- try this place, but I am thinking it will be spendy.

    Products - Peak Toolworks

    I used to work there (before it sold?) and program alot of the stuff you see on their website. Anywho, they specialize in custom router bits and cutters for the woodworking industry. They make cutters using HSS, carbide, and pcd 'blades'/inserts. Not sure if any of it would work with a homeshop type machine though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    My numbers came from the .DXF file from grab cad for the standard Fender pick. You can believe the 120 piece count if you want to or not, personally I don't care. Seems you sitting down at a table with a 10" square piece of paper laying out a bunch of picks to see how many fit is smarter than my cad system designed just for this.
    I would be interested in seeing a pic if you are so inclined. Not because I don't believe you, because I would like to see how my own quick sketch was soo wrong.

    edit: is there allowance for clamping, or..? just curious as I don't know how nesting software really works other than a basic premise....

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    Hello, #5,

    ,snip>

    Finally, in response to some of the other posts - those of us who have been around this forum for any length of time have seen people swagger in with a question who clearly have no interest in hearing or understanding the hard-won experience of the professional machinists here. It is always hard to be sure when all we have to work with are words on the screen, of course, but I'm not seeing the OP as being one of those people. What I'm perceiving is someone who is an expert in his particular niche who is genuinely wanting to see if there are better ideas out there, but who also has tried a lot of things that we are suggesting and found them wanting. IOW, in this case, we may be the ones coming up with ideas that make perfect sense to us, but which don't really match the hard realities of this particular niche. Again, I may be wrong, of course ...
    Good points here ^

    Buutt you know what they say about machinists, ask 10 machinist how to do something and you will get 12 answers.

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    edit: the real advantage I see is cutting out of sheet seems to me would be less labor intensive, but if you consider your labor "free" ..? Can't argue with that I suppose, but time is money so...
    I guess this is where I'm off. The water-jet total cut time is 15.23 minutes based on .032 thick fine cut polyimide (Yep, it's in the Omax material library) for the nested 120 pcs. So basically before they can get the chuck jaws set to part off the round blanks I'm boxing up 120 pcs ready to ship!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I would be interested in seeing a pic if you are so inclined. Not because I don't believe you, because I would like to see how my own quick sketch was soo wrong.

    edit: is there allowance for clamping, or..? just curious as I don't know how nesting software really works other than a basic premise....
    Hang loose just a bit. its 3 AM here so when I get back to the office in a bit ill get a screen shot.

    As far as clamping goes, on the WJ maybe 2 clamps holding on an 1/8th of each side is more than enough. just to keep it from floating off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn View Post
    #5 ii Alive,
    What kind of laser causes vespel to burn? Typical metal-cutting lasers are in the IR, but there are short-pulse lasers at shorter wavelengths that cut organic materials without burning or thermally evaporating the material - chemical bonds are cut, causing the material to convert directly into a gas.
    Nano and pico-second lasers are certainly the cat's ass at cutting with low temp into the part and high accuracy but they are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.
    Prices are coming down but still into easy 6 figures for a complete system.
    I think this will become the future but it is not here yet.
    At the moment a niche where you can get a lot of money per machine hour.
    Your link is inserting, short wave but not the pulse rates. A niche here in plastics or even some ceramics with a sort of ablation?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    ....
    Buutt you know what they say about machinists, ask 10 machinist how to do something and you will get 12 answers.
    And if you question or poke them a bit you will have 40 answers from those ten people.
    Each right and each wrong.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I would be interested in seeing a pic if you are so inclined. Not because I don't believe you, because I would like to see how my own quick sketch was soo wrong.

    edit: is there allowance for clamping, or..? just curious as I don't know how nesting software really works other than a basic premise....
    Ehh, Cant sleep so went ahead and threw another nest together in Solidworks. I changed the gap from .005 to .010 and it resulted with 119 pcs (notice the count on the tree left side, also showing 10"X10" at the bottom). But it gave a nice piece of material left over to cut some Bass picks from rather than waste it. Bass pics are a tad narrower so seemed a good fit.

    capture.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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