Semi-OT- What to do when a Tap-con strips? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    simply drill "All-the-Way-Thru" the wall, threaded rod, to plate on other side.

    Easy Peasy....
    The world would be a safer place if everything was thru-bolted. A193 B7 or better.

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  3. #22
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    If it's one of the screws under the shelf, it's decorative too....

    Tapcons suck anywhere. 1/4" hole, plastic anchor with the fastener of choice actually holds and is way cheaper. The other possibilities mentioned are all better. It's a mystery to me why tapcons even exist. One more overpriced, oversold, underperforming piece of ....modren hardware.

    Ok, rant over....

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    If it's one of the screws under the shelf, it's decorative too....

    Tapcons suck anywhere. 1/4" hole, plastic anchor with the fastener of choice actually holds and is way cheaper. The other possibilities mentioned are all better. It's a mystery to me why tapcons even exist. One more overpriced, oversold, underperforming piece of ....modren hardware.

    Ok, rant over....
    Funny, my experience has been quite the opposite. I've used thousands of them and find them to be extremely strong in shear and good for pullout IF they're used in a properly sized hole in solid material and NOT over-tightened during installation. Over-tightening is not a problem in concrete, but it is in brick, block and mortar. Biggest problem I see is people limp-wristing the drill and getting an oversize hole, or using the wrong size drill to start with. In cinder block I use a slightly undersize drill.

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Heaton View Post
    Funny, my experience has been quite the opposite. I've used thousands of them and find them to be extremely strong in shear and good for pullout IF they're used in a properly sized hole in solid material and NOT over-tightened during installation. Over-tightening is not a problem in concrete, but it is in brick, block and mortar. Biggest problem I see is people limp-wristing the drill and getting an oversize hole, or using the wrong size drill to start with. In cinder block I use a slightly undersize drill.
    So true^^^ Even the instructions for tapcons call out different size bits for block/brick and concrete. 5/32 and 3/16 are what I am used to seeing.

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  8. #25
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    anchoring in any compressive medium with any fastener is an art. the 2 things to understand are 3 out of 4 is a good expectation for success, and it is always a crapshoot what you are actually going to get when you drill.

    flexibility, ingenuity, improvisation. and never forget the Big Dig (RIP the random driver who paid the ultimate price for that fuckup)

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    and never forget the Big Dig (RIP the random driver who paid the ultimate price for that fuckup)
    Ha, I figured that would come up in this thread.

    I thought that was due to an improper epoxy selection?

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Heaton View Post
    Funny, my experience has been quite the opposite. I've used thousands of them and find them to be extremely strong in shear and good for pullout IF they're used in a properly sized hole in solid material and NOT over-tightened during installation. Over-tightening is not a problem in concrete, but it is in brick, block and mortar. Biggest problem I see is people limp-wristing the drill and getting an oversize hole, or using the wrong size drill to start with. In cinder block I use a slightly undersize drill.
    I'm glad you've gotten good results.

    The last thing I did with them was fasten a 2x6 face door frame/trim to a cured concrete wall. About a 50% success rate, 20 data points. Used the recommended included drill, sheared off 3 fasteners, stripped 5 and have some that won't pull the 2x6 flat against the wall - more stripped. Could be the anomalies in the aggregate resulted in oversize/undersize holes.

    The nylon string/chopstick trick is a good one (Thanks, guys!), so the stripped fasteners can be rehabbed.

    Agreed, Tapcons are good in shear, for their size. A 1/4" lag would take quite a bit more, though not as convenient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Ha, I figured that would come up in this thread.

    I thought that was due to an improper epoxy selection?

    Had to google.

    Dang.

    Big Dig - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Was hanging a small shelf in some brick using tapcon concrete anchors (the little blue ones) and of all the 9 holes, one happened to fall on a mortar joint. Naturally, it pulled the mortar out as soon as I put any torque on it.

    I really want to use the tapcon screw I already have, the aesthetics need to match.


    What options do I have here?

    Thanks, Cole
    What I do in such situations is plug the hole with quick drying high strength cement and then re-drill.

    PS: Throw away the used screw and use a fresh one. They are not meant for reuse.

  13. #30
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    Going into soft brick I often use epoxy on the fasteners regardless of if they bite well or not. Cheap insurance. A piece of wood (or anything that fits in the hole to apply pressure) will work in a lot of situations, but more so if the hole was just made too big. The screw pulled right through the soft mortar the first time, and adding a chopstick will just make it pull right through the mortar more towards one side of the hole. A plastic anchor applies pressure evenly without the threads drilling at the substrate.

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    I have used the 16d nail and re-bar tie wire for 40+ years. Works perfectly in a 3/16" diameter hole . You do not need a duplex nail ( double head ). Any 16d nail will do. In the OP's case I would not use the nail and wire because the mortar joint will probably only get larger. There are many anchor types that will work. I would use a lead anchor. The lead anchor is driven in the hole, excess lead will mash around the face of the joint. Drill a hole for the tapcon if needed and drive it in with a hammer instead of turning the tapcon in. I found the few times I used tapcons that driving them in worked faster and just as well as turning . No chance of the lead spinning in the hole if you hammer it in.
    Another option is to simply drill another hole thru the bracket that will land in the brick.
    I once won a weeks lunches with a bet that the nail and wire method will hold as well or better than any
    mechanical system known at that time. I drilled thru a 2x4 plate with a 3/16" masonry bit using a Bosch Bull Dog rotary hammer. Then drove a 16d nail along with a 4" length of tie wire til the nail was flush with 2x4. I did this on about 2'-0" centers on a 16'-0 length.
    I told the foreman to try and pry the 2x4 up. He got a 4'-0 stripping bar and proceeded to pull the entire 2x4 up. Only problem was every nail was still there. Made a believer out of him and only cost 5 lunches.

    mike

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    Load is almost mostly shear with a bit of tension on a shelf like that.
    Each 1/4" Tapcon has a shear strength of a half-ton.

    I would re-install the Tapcon using like a threaded rod, epoxy anchor.
    Over drill the hole. To do it "right" (structural), take it to the outside of the mortar joint so the epoxy will bond to the block.

    Brush out any loose material, blow it out with compressed air.

    Coat the face of the shelving bracket and screw head with release agent- any sort of wax (paste wax, shoe polish) so epoxy "push-out" will not bond to it.

    Push Tapcon through hole in the bracket, and immediately after filling the hole with epoxy (and before it can run out) press the bracket/screw into the epoxy, secure in place with one of the other Tapcons.

    Threaded rods are commonly set in epoxy for high-load structural applications- including tension.

    Less than a decade machining, 35 years as a commercial General Contractor. JMO.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    If it's one of the screws under the shelf, it's decorative too....

    Tapcons suck anywhere. 1/4" hole, plastic anchor with the fastener of choice actually holds and is way cheaper. The other possibilities mentioned are all better. It's a mystery to me why tapcons even exist. One more overpriced, oversold, underperforming piece of ....modren hardware.

    Ok, rant over....

    Funny, Telco uses them by the millions to attach almost anything and everything to brick or block in commercial and industrial locations. That was the first place I ever saw them.

  17. #34
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    I had bad experiences with Tapcons stripping out. I only use wedge or sleeve anchors. Rather than scrap the Tapcons I had, I used them for lag screws. I would limit the use of resin anchors to applications where the stud was in shear or where tensile loading was intermittent.


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