sioux 680 valve grinder

I bought a sioux 680 valve grinder but there is no oil pump or reservoir for it. The tank is not a problem but has anyone ran into this and what are people using for a replacement pump for these machines

I don't know about your application but I have used small 'Little Giant' fountain pumps for coolant pumps before, they are relatively cheap and work well. I don't know the composition of your 'oil' but the Little Giant will handle mildly corrosive liquids.

Welcome to the forum Ray.

Stuart

Don't use oil I mean, for the grinding stone. Use water. I've seen people use auto transmission fluid. It does a lousy job. I like to add a tablespoon or two of automatic dishwashing detergent to the water.

Well I have owned and been around those machines and never saw one using plain water. Either soluble oil or some light oil and yes ATF. Plain water and you will soon have a rusty lump.

JohnEvans said:

Well I have owned and been around those machines and never saw one using plain water. Either soluble oil or some light oil and yes ATF. Plain water and you will soon have a rusty lump.

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I was using a Sioux valve grinder forty years ago. What were you doing forty years ago?

Don't use oil. You are grinding. That's abrasion. Oil is for lubrication. Why would you want to lubricate a grinding wheel? Oil interferes with the abrasion.

Use water.

40 years ago I was using a Kwik-Way valve grinder and the sump of that machine was filled with grinding oil.

1 Gallon (3.8L) Valve Grinding Oil [000-2112-73] : Kwik-Way Online Store, A Tradition of Automotive Precision Since 1920

My boss would've shot someone if they filled the sump with water.


Rex

bjorn toulouse said:

40 years ago I was using a Kwik-Way valve grinder and the sump of that machine was filled with grinding oil.

1 Gallon (3.8L) Valve Grinding Oil [000-2112-73] : Kwik-Way Online Store, A Tradition of Automotive Precision Since 1920

My boss would've shot someone if they filled the sump with water.


Rex

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so you've been doing it wrong all your life because someone taught you wrong. I know that mechanics commonly use oil in a valve grinder, but that doesn't make it right. I've seen the work turned out on a valve grinder using oil, and it looks bad. Not nearly as good as when water is used.

anoldcrank said:

I was using a Sioux valve grinder forty years ago. What were you doing forty years ago?

Don't use oil. You are grinding. That's abrasion. Oil is for lubrication. Why would you want to lubricate a grinding wheel? Oil interferes with the abrasion.

Use water.

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Gee 40 years ago I was using one of those machines refacing valves and was using some form of oil,come to think about it I was doing it right at 50 years ago at my first job in the automotive after market !!
John

anoldcrank said:

so you've been doing it wrong all your life because someone taught you wrong. I know that mechanics commonly use oil in a valve grinder, but that doesn't make it right. I've seen the work turned out on a valve grinder using oil, and it looks bad. Not nearly as good as when water is used.

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Why in the fuck are you busting my chops??
Call Kwik-Way and tell them how stoopid they are for selling the stuff!
You might want to get after Sunnen as well, they sell honing oil.


Rex

bjorn toulouse said:

40 years ago I was using a Kwik-Way valve grinder and the sump of that machine was filled with grinding oil.

1 Gallon (3.8L) Valve Grinding Oil [000-2112-73] : Kwik-Way Online Store, A Tradition of Automotive Precision Since 1920


Rex

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OK. I found this Goodson product:'

GOODSON : Cylinder Head Supplies : Valve Grinding Oil

I figure, they are all about the same.

Here's the MSDS sheet:

http://www.goodson.com/technical_support/msds/VGO-10.50.pdf

It is 94 to 99% something numbered
64741-89-5

Which is something called a light parrafinic.



ChemIDplus - 64741-89-5 - Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined light paraffinic - Searchable synonyms, formulas, resource links, and other chemical information.

I notice it has a viscosity of 19 centiStokes.

So I look that up on the table here:
http://www.clearcoproducts.com/pdf/library/Viscosity-Conversion-Chart.pdf

And see that 19 cSt is a little thicker that WATER, but not as thick as olive oil.

Another name for parrafinic oil is kerosene.

Whats the difference between mineral oil and paraffin oil?


so, save your money, use water.

The only reason they sell this stuff is because of people that think you are supposed to use oil to grind.

When you go to the electric grinder to sharpen a drill bit, do you put oil on it? When you use an angle grinder to grind a weld, do you put oil on it? Do you put oil on anything else to grind it, besides a valve?

Thread grinders run oil too.

anoldcrank said:

When you go to the electric grinder to sharpen a drill bit, do you put oil on it? When you use an angle grinder to grind a weld, do you put oil on it? Do you put oil on anything else to grind it, besides a valve?

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40+ years ago my Mom told me; "Never get in an argument with an idiot."


Rex

Fresh out of highschool, I worked in a grinding shop, running a rollomatic 5 axis CNC grinder. All of those machines used transogrind synthetic OIL.

Thank you guys for clearing up a mystery for me. I have always wondered why some mechanics insist on oil for a valve grinder.

My dad and his partner always used water in the valve grinder, and got good results. I naturally always used water also. I worked for a man, and somehow the discussion came up, and he said, you never want to use oil in a valve grinder. Oil is a lubricant and you want to grind. It works against you. None of us had ever read the operator's manual, apparently.

But now and then I meet someone insistent on using oil in a valve grinder. And I've seen some of their work, and it was lousy. So I wondered, where's it coming from to use oil in a valve grinder?

Now I know, it's coming from the valve grinder manufacturers. The salesman says to the mechanic, "You never want to use water. Oh, sure, some hillbillies, rednecks and other sorts of shade tree mechanics use water. But if you want to do a good job you need to use this special valve grinding oil. Never use water."

And then the salesman delivers kerosene and calls it 'special valve grinding oil', and the mechanic pays a premium price, I am sure.

The 'oil' works alright because it's so thin, it doesn't have too much lubricity. The work looks satisfactory.

But then the mechanic runs out of this special 'oil' and tries a substitute. Which is sort of the situation of the OP. Various things are tried, such as motor oil, auto trans. fluid, sulfur cutting fluid, whatever. This is where the problems begin. And this is probably what I've been seeing. The results are bad.

The mechanic has been told that this is an 'oil', so when he looks for a substitute, he thinks 'oil' and would probably never think of kerosene, because most people wouldn't. The mechanic has been confused because the more correct terminology would be 'grinding fluid'.

So, now to answer the OP's original question :What is a substitute for ''valve grinding oil'? The answer is kerosene, or light paraffinic oil.

But if you want my suggestion, use water, with a little automatic dishwashing soap added.

The oil isn't for the valve or stone for that matter. It's for the machine to prevent corrosion. Yes, water works well on the valve, but it's not worth a damn for the machine. Grinding fluid is what you use.

Well now that is done can we get back to the pump. I was thinking about the little giant myself but has anyone tries anything else besides that.

Don't know how often you might need to grind valves,

ray thiel said:

Well now that is done can we get back to the pump. I was thinking about the little giant myself but has anyone tries anything else besides that.

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For occaisional activity, there is not much that can be held against a drip cup suspended over the work. 'An adjustable valve to control delivery rate, drop...drop...drop....;-)

The "oil" thing was a curious exchange. There is a difference between lube oils and cutting oils ;-)
Don't use lube oil for cutting operations!

Has anyone burned their valve grinding machine down yet using anoldcrank's Kerosene? Grinding threading oils have an extremely high temp flash point. He's a funny tight wad and accident looking for a place to happen. I just need an oil pump for my old grinder.

If you search around you will usually see that any type of coolant/oil pump is real expensive or has a ferocious GPM rating..or is the size of a Mack truck. The Little Giant line has small, inexpensive pumps with pretty low outputs.

Stuart

The Sioux grinder I had 40 years ago was a dry grinder, no place for any coolant at all. The Kwik Way grinder I got 30 years ago has a sump and pump. I use the grinding oil that Kwik Way sells. I get great results. I doubt if the coolant makes any difference. If the wheel is not dressed properly you will not get a good job.