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    Default Siphon angle

    Hopefully this isn't too far off topic but I really respect the vast amount of knowlege from many here. We found a very narrow, very twisty channel through the cattails. Maybe 5-6 feet wide and close to a mile long. What started out as a challenge just to make it through turned into a stop watch competition amoung us jet skiers. It is only doable after a hard rain due to a few shallow spots and weedy spots. This is the only safe channel we ever found due to the lack of trees and such. I would like to deepen a few spots and remove weeds also. I have a 4" diesel trash pump that can handle 2" solids. I planned on rigging up a boom on the front of my flat bottom river boat and sucking the bad spots away and blowing it into the cattails away from the channel. Now I have been told a better way is to draw clean water through the pump and the in the 4" dicharge end, place a 4" pipe at an angle to draw or siphon the sand and weeds only through a short section, saving the trash pump from seeing all the abrasive sand and such. I doubt you would place the sand pickup pipe at a 90 degree angle and I'm thinking about a 45 degree angle but that would be a guess. I can't find any info on this anwhere so here I am on this forum hoping for an answer. Can anybody provide the info I need? If anybody is interested I have a gopro video of my fastest time through the channel (2:36) only one and a half seconds faster than the next guy.

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    Default Video of channel run

    Half of the course is main river then it gets way smaller. If you look closely, you will see the boat launch at the beginning and also at the end forming an island.

    Dixon current fast time 2'31 8 - YouTube

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    We did the same to Scipio Creek in Vermontville Michigan to provide for a father and son(or daughter) canoe race.
    We hand and shovel dug and sawed-off just enough to make a small opening. the race was about a half-mile long and I now forget the best time. I think building a wood-frame box with chicken or rabbit wire and a drop pole to keep to a couple of feet off the bottom for keeping your pick-up clear might do for you.

    Your route is much clearer than ours, after clearing we still had a jungle.

    Another time on a treasure hunt we hung a screen box to the side of a boat and walked a pressure dredge to being sand and coins to the box. Not paying attention we accidentally built a sand bar winner us and stuck our boat.

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    No way that would be close to legal in the west. Does the EPA care in your region? Be careful, people have been killed over water rights.
    I suppose if you get a gold dredging permit it might be legal, sort of.
    Bill D.

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    Not that this sounds like a good idea, but look up the way "treasure hunters" make a "mailbox" for their outboard down in south florida/the keys. You are looking at jail time if you get caught with one down there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    Not that this sounds like a good idea, but look up the way "treasure hunters" make a "mailbox" for their outboard down in south florida/the keys. You are looking at jail time if you get caught with one down there.

    I'd never heard of such a thing, so of course I had to google it.

    Neat.

    This thread has videos, for anyone who's curious like I was: Mailbox Blower | Boat Design Net

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    Are you sure making the mods you want to do are legal in Michigan?
    You did post this on the net.
    Myself, no problem and seems fine... but thin ice now and all it takes is one nutcase.
    What to do some mods on may lakefront so asked the guy who pulled out my hoist with a bobcat.
    He told me "Can't touch that. Everyone and their brother on the lake will complain and you will need all kinds or permits.".
    Twenty-five years ago I did the same on the lot next door and no problems. Now...... WTF.
    Bob

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    The sand sucker we made had about 40* angle and a high-pressure nozzle to push the water straight out the exit pipe. That water movement made a suction to the downpipe. It would pick up rocks bigger than a golf ball but not quite as big as a hardball. made for a walk around in water up to your shoulders.

    We were dredging at the old beach of Sugar Island, at the foot of the Detroit river.

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    What you are suggesting will require a permit from the Army Corps of engineers anywhere in the US. Look up Waters of the US (WOTUS). Penalties will bankrupt you. The worst part is when you ask the Corps a question, you will never get a direct answer. And when you are finished a different person will come back with a list of regulations you broke and require you to return everything to original condition.

    Tread carefully and keep your mouth shut.

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    Who doesnt love hooligans on jet skis doing a bit of cutter suction dredging in their pristine waterways?

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    Hope no one uses that muddy water you will be making for drinking, irrigation, fishing, boating etc. They will report it in a heartbeat.
    Bill D.

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    Looks like fun! We ride our JetSkis up the river at our lake. The water level is down a bit, so we can only go about 5 miles, last year we could go 8 miles until we got to a fallen tree blocking the river. Width varies from about 30 feet to about 8, not quite as narrow as yours. The bottom of our river in that section is silt.

    Don't know if what you want to do is legal, but if you ask you know that it wouldn't be for sure.

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    Would a good dirt rider want to improve the course or learn a new way to ride it?

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    If someone suggested that there may be Martian kidoodlehoppers in that river a 6 million dollar 6 year long study would have to be made.

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    That's the problem with this country. Well, one of them. You can't even go and have some fun without some dickheads complaining about it.

    Here's a better idea - start a meth lab and/or do a few drive-by shootings. No one seems to care if you do that. Hell, here in Houston you can get released on a $100 bond if they do decide to harass you over a murder charge. Or vandalize a Target and protest yourself a new BMW from your local dealer. You might even get a commendation for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    That's the problem with this country. Well, one of them. You can't even go and have some fun without some dickheads complaining about it.

    Here's a better idea - start a meth lab and/or do a few drive-by shootings. No one seems to care if you do that. Hell, here in Houston you can get released on a $100 bond if they do decide to harass you over a murder charge. Or vandalize a Target and protest yourself a new BMW from your local dealer. You might even get a commendation for that.
    But there is nothing a bureaucrat loves more than power without accountability. The Clean Water Act/WOTUS requires lots of bureaucrats, and there is absolutely no accountability. EPA/USACOE have been slapped down many times by the courts, and still charge the next person with the same infractions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    Looks like fun! We ride our JetSkis up the river at our lake. The water level is down a bit, so we can only go about 5 miles, last year we could go 8 miles until we got to a fallen tree blocking the river. Width varies from about 30 feet to about 8, not quite as narrow as yours. The bottom of our river in that section is silt.

    Don't know if what you want to do is legal, but if you ask you know that it wouldn't be for sure.
    Here's the deal, our river system has many splits then coming back together a mile or much more downstream forming large islands. Timing each other with stop watches is dangerous in every other one except this one, unique tributary. All the others involve going fast through corners and straights lined with large trees, whereas this one is totally nice soft cattails. More often than not a competitor will not make it through all the way. We then slowly drive through until we find then off in the cattails and pull them out with a nylon tow strap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Would a good dirt rider want to improve the course or learn a new way to ride it?
    You make a good point that would seem to make sense but most of the summer there is barely enough water to float a jet ski and then, from non use, the few inches of water that is there clogs up solid with weeds, making it near impossible to get through.

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    For sure, we have a staggering number of useless government employees getting paid lots of money doing meaningless tasks such as 'protecting' waterways that no one alive - including Mother Nature- cares about.

    You could cut down all of those weeds, dig down 30 feet, and in 20 years it would all be back stronger than ever. The arrogance of the enviro crowd is stunning....but then, they get paid very well for that arrogance.

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    If the OP owns the land and the waterways, and if the dredging the waterway doesn't affect a lot of downstream stuff and other people, perhaps our regulations are a bit too constraining. If the OP doesn't own the land and the waterways, why is it viewed as his right to dredge something he doesn't own? I mean it looks like a guy in a dinghy fishing (at about 1'12" in the vid). I can imagine him saying "WTF?" to this. Shouldn't there be regulations allocating some parts of the waterways as quiet zones with 5mph speed limits (Newport harbor has some speed limits and no-wake laws IIRC).

    I mean, if you had a beautiful quiet stream next to your house and somebody ran a dredge up and down the stream and deposited the dredged material on the banks, and commenced to racing their jet skis up and down the stream, would this be the exercise of an American's right to to whatever the hell they want, or a thoughtless imposition on your and other's rights? Would I have a right to bury sharpened 10' sections of railroad rails so that the pointy ends were 2" below the waterline? No? THIS IS HOW FREEDOM IS LOST! FIRST THEY STOP US FROM DREDGING WETLANDS WE DON'T OWN, THEN THEY KEEP US FROM PLACING ANTI-WATERCRAFT SPIKES! IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!! Seriously guys, civilized society has laws and regulations we all have to follow. If you're looking for something to be outraged about, though, I'm sure you'll find it. Sigh.

    But however folks feel about the regs, they exist, and dredging "American Waters" and wetlands (and especially discharging whatever you've dredged back somewhere else in the waterway) requires some serious permitting foo. If it's worth gambling that you WON'T have to pay the $10,000/day (see here for a Michigan wetlands story) you're a bigger gambler than I'll ever be.


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