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Thread: Siphon angle

  1. #21
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    The problem with your 'argument' is that it's a slippery slope. It also presumes that 'someone' owns everything. It also draws a false parallel between a harmless act and one that is both intentionally harmful and devious.

    Don't think yourself out of too many freedoms. Thinking is a good thing - if done in moderation. Too many people have too much excess time on their hands...that leads to excess thinking. I've noticed that the more a person thinks, the less he produces. The less he does much good for anyone and everyone.

    Thinking....I'll bet I could think of some stuff you are doing that, by God, you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    If the OP owns the land and the waterways, and if the dredging the waterway doesn't affect a lot of downstream stuff and other people, perhaps our regulations are a bit too constraining. .
    It seems to me it began to get complicated in the 80s.
    An example is 20 acres that photos from the 50s show as dry land and percs fine. Adjacent to a large lake that drains through it.
    But a road for housing gets built back then and has terrible drainage so 10 acres of this gradually turns into a sort of a swamp over the next 20-30 years.
    Now it becomes "protected wetlands". One would think that you could replace the drain with a new creek that the road killed with a new dig and the flow the same as before but oh no.
    Once the cattails begin to grow it seems you no longer own this land even though you do pay the property taxes.
    Same furry with trails that get closed off to motorized due to "erosion" or whatever.
    Go to these meetings and ask the kids "Did you see this land in 1963?... Has it changed?"

    The op wants to spend his own time and energy to clean a drain way. Is this bad and why are there so many rules against it?
    Bob

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  5. #23
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    More importantly....can you run a sled up it in February ?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    If the OP owns the land and the waterways, and if the dredging the waterway doesn't affect a lot of downstream stuff and other people, perhaps our regulations are a bit too constraining. If the OP doesn't own the land and the waterways, why is it viewed as his right to dredge something he doesn't own? I mean it looks like a guy in a dinghy fishing (at about 1'12" in the vid). I can imagine him saying "WTF?" to this. Shouldn't there be regulations allocating some parts of the waterways as quiet zones with 5mph speed limits (Newport harbor has some speed limits and no-wake laws IIRC).

    I mean, if you had a beautiful quiet stream next to your house and somebody ran a dredge up and down the stream and deposited the dredged material on the banks, and commenced to racing their jet skis up and down the stream, would this be the exercise of an American's right to to whatever the hell they want, or a thoughtless imposition on your and other's rights? Would I have a right to bury sharpened 10' sections of railroad rails so that the pointy ends were 2" below the waterline? No? THIS IS HOW FREEDOM IS LOST! FIRST THEY STOP US FROM DREDGING WETLANDS WE DON'T OWN, THEN THEY KEEP US FROM PLACING ANTI-WATERCRAFT SPIKES! IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!! Seriously guys, civilized society has laws and regulations we all have to follow. If you're looking for something to be outraged about, though, I'm sure you'll find it. Sigh.

    But however folks feel about the regs, they exist, and dredging "American Waters" and wetlands (and especially discharging whatever you've dredged back somewhere else in the waterway) requires some serious permitting foo. If it's worth gambling that you WON'T have to pay the $10,000/day (see here for a Michigan wetlands story) you're a bigger gambler than I'll ever be.
    The guy at the 1'12" mark is my spotter for safety. There is the slightest possibly that another boat could come through that short area and I am somewhat committed on those corners where I had him sit to avoid any potential mishaps. The area is so remote that it might only see a single boat and that would be on a weekend. Sadly I am the only one in our small group of four or five that insists on this precaution. I spent ten days in the hospital with a broken femur from one of "former" guys I used to ride with, it was a terrible judgement call on his part, I was sitting on my machine, motor off and watched him bearing down on me at high speed and he plowed directly into me and all he could say was he figured I would move. The incident happened in august and I was barely able to slowly limp by february. It has been 17 years now and I still have a limp if I try to walk fast.

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    This thread is a good example of how the world is getting a smaller and smaller place every day. The noose only tightens.

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    The op wants to spend his own time and energy to clean a drain way. Is this bad and why are there so many rules against it?


    The OP seems like a decent chap, and my heart goes out to him regarding an idiot plowing into him. But I think that your anecdote works both ways. A 20 acre wetland, with several little waterways that allows access for fishing and birding or even bird hunting. Someone (a developer perhaps) comes in and "clears" several "drain ways". And now we have 15 acres of dry land, no fishing, and... Well, 15 acres of new homes. Or maybe a roadway can be built on that dry land to give access to 100 acres that the developer wants to build houses on. Yay. This might be a good thing. But it may just be someone trying to use someone else's property. So I stand by my premise: there's a pretty good reason for some of the regulations, not all regulations are bad, and just because it looks like a blast to race through the waterway doesn't mean that I or you or the OP has a right to. He may have a right: the property owner may have given permission. But to use this case as an argument for regulatory overreach is.. an overreach IMHO.


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    The word dredge has now appeared several times in this thread. What I'm trying to do could be done in a few hours with one man and a garden rake, remove some weeds and drag the tops off a few sandy areas that are small but make a short distance three or four inches deep, so dredge brings something much more extreme to mind. As far as anything I could do could possibly could lead to a 'housing devolpment', the entire area is owned by, and has been cleared decades ago by the eletric power company for a high power transmission 'power line' as can be seen in the video.

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    I wish you'd stop introducing facts into this matter.

    Facts don't matter in this discussion, nor in any discussion. Not anymore. What does matter is how we feel* about this topic, and that we cater to the need we all have to sit back and tell other people why they can't do anything that offends our emotions, and also how we should best spend their money. We've learned that what might appear to be fine on the surface isn't fine - if we think about it long enough, we can find some reason to complain and deny. Nothing and no one is safe.


    *How we fell is a product of what we've been taught to feel through countless TV program, books, school, and radio shows which have all been tailored around an agenda aimed at making every single human being a pussy.

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    Looks like fun! We ride our JetSkis up the river at our lake. The water level is down a bit, so we can only go about 5 miles, last year we could go 8 miles until we got to a fallen tree blocking the river. Width varies from about 30 feet to about 8, not quite as narrow as yours. The bottom of our river in that section is silt.

    Don't know if what you want to do is legal, but if you ask you know that it wouldn't be for sure.
    I suppose someone will find something wrong with this also, but after a storm many times there will be a large tree completely blocking the river from all traffic. A few weeks ago I went up the river to remove a section of large tree to open a path for boaters, mostly kayakers that use that branch. I took three chainsaws just in case. I assessed the stress in the tree where I choose the cut and began a straight downward cut, carefully watching the kerf width at the start of the cut. When I was about 2/3 of the way throughI noticed the starting kerf was getting slightly wider, good sign. Then out of the blue the blade stopped and the saw was locked up tight in the log. I grabbed the second saw to free the first and somehow along the way the second saw became jammed hopelessly tight in the log also. My third saw was a small professional series Echo with a 12 inch blade. I REALLY took my time cutting small wedges as I went along and after quite a battle was able to free the two stuck ones. Possibly when a saw cuts into a tree just below the water line and the wood is soaked, the wood around the cut area quickly expands locking the blade tight?

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    1884 was the first environmental law in California. Before that law entire mountains were washed away so the mud could run over a gold collecting flume coated in mercury. The mud was so bad that all fish downstream were killed, San Francisco bay had one foot a year of mud added, steam boat traffic was stopped on some rivers due to sandbars and too much dirt in the water for boiler use. The gravel banks failed in winter rains and flooded cities, killing a few dozen people. Etc. etc.
    Bill D

    Dam below historic Argonaut Mine threatens city of Jackson | abc10.com


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