Slitting Saw Arbors
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  1. #1
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    Default Slitting Saw Arbors

    I went to use the 1" diameter arbor in our shop today, and this thing wanders around like a drunken sheepherder... I measured .022" total runout in the bore!

    Does anyone make high quality slitting saw arbors commercially or should I just make my own from tool steel and then heat treat?

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    Sierra American (Enco carries them I think) sells their standard "high performance" series with, they claim, 0.001" runout. They have a "gold series" arbor and claim 0.0004" runout. I think you will find that the average slitting saw has at least 0.001 runout between hole centerline of the hole and the tips of the teeth.

    -DU-

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    If you can't find one like this, then make your own. This is a Tool Mark Arbor out of Minneapolis.
    I've recently searched for this type and didn't find but one place that sold this style for close to 3 bills, I payed under a hundered years ago. Not sure if they are made anymore.
    Someone will post a link to get it for 49.95 with my luck.
    Good luck.

    Tom
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dscn0202.jpg  

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    Make your own, but skip the heat treat unless you have an OD grinder to true everything up after HT.

    4140HT can be used to make a perfectly serviceable arbor. I have dozens of shop-made arbors, out of 4140 and 4340HT, that work quite well.

    Regards.

    Finegrain

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    I bought mine at MSC. For some reason, I think Sierra was the brand, but can't recall.
    I do remember that they had two different versions, like mentioned earlier. I did not buy
    the expensive model because I don't need that kind of accuracy. I can tell you that the one I did buy is very nice and runs very true for my purposes.






    Frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
    If you can't find one like this, then make your own. This is a Tool Mark Arbor out of Minneapolis.
    I've recently searched for this type and didn't find but one place that sold this style for close to 3 bills, I payed under a hundered years ago. Not sure if they are made anymore.
    Someone will post a link to get it for 49.95 with my luck.
    Good luck.

    Tom
    Tom,

    Try Spirit Tool and Die, Inc..

    A nice explanation of how these arbors are set up:
    http://www.spirittool.com/images/arbor.pdf

    Best,

    Jim

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    Default Spirit Tool Arbor System

    If you can't find one like this, then make your own. This is a Tool Mark Arbor out of Minneapolis.
    I've recently searched for this type and didn't find but one place that sold this style for close to 3 bills, I payed under a hundered years ago. Not sure if they are made anymore.
    Tom,

    Back in February of 2010, my wife & I bought the rights to manufacturer the Spirit Tool arbor system, also known as the Toolmark Arbor. We now make them here in Maine. This is a high precision arbor so wandering is never a problem. It offers a low profile, extremely rigid mounting for your cutter that is so easy to use.

    As one of you gentlemen said, "You could make your own". But the quality will be near impossible to match, it wont last as long and your shop time will cost you a whole lot more than the price of this tool.

    You can buy them in two styles, in two sizes and with a variety of size adapters, direct from us, the manufacturer at www.spirittool.com And for a good deal less than 3 bills!

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    Personaly i would try rotating the blade around. As has already been said, oftern the blades bore to the teeth is a mile out. This comes about because of the way there commonly shapened. Form cutters where only the front of the teeth get ground are the worst. Whilst haveing a arbour thats near perfect may help, equaly you may find that means you can never find a spot thats actualy near true. Equaly if there involved in a prang its time to break out some wooden blocks and the big mallet and straighten them. Buying new is in my opinion like buying a new car because the current ones gas tanks empty!

    Now if the tappers banged up - threads damged thats diffrent and new may well be in order.

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    I bought one from Travers about four years ago, not the bargain brand but one of the middle models. The style that has steps for 1" & 1-1/4" bored cutters. I have a lot of 1" cutters. Bummer was the runout on the 1" step was horrible but spot on for the 1-1/4".
    How the hell they managed this is beyond me, can't imagine that heat treat would affect the end that much.

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    I have one of the "regular" Sierra American arbors, with a 3/4" straight shank so it goes easily into the Bridgeport or Nichols. I like it a lot. I've not measured runout but its better than the stub arbor I also use for slitting saws, certainly a smaller profile.

    Never had any luck rotating or flipping the cutter, the runout I've worked with has been dominated by the arbor. The first one I had was a cheapie stub arbor, it was <awful>. I got a 2nd one from Taiwan, which was a big improvement. The SA arbor ends up being really convenient in comparison though.

    The Spirit tools look very nice- would be somewhat easier to set up if they had a smaller straight shank though. It looks pricey when you view the webpage, but not so bad at all when you watch the saw still flopping around way out of tolerance no matter how carefully you set up the tooling...

    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Make your own, but skip the heat treat unless you have an OD grinder to true everything up after HT.

    4140HT can be used to make a perfectly serviceable arbor. I have dozens of shop-made arbors, out of 4140 and 4340HT, that work quite well.

    Regards.

    Finegrain
    This is a very informative thread; thanks to all. It is also pleasing to see someone investing in a US Company (Spirit Tool). As a hobbyist, I cannot afford to purchase anything other than the less expensive or, worse, the cheap imports. Everything I mention on this post is R8 shank. I do have a Peterson flush cutting arbor that I inherited. I have had mixed results with it and it functions much better as an arbor for cutters thicker than slitting saws. If anyone from Peterson happens to read this, please take this constructive criticism: please prepare a decent online instruction series; the little that you offer is really bad.

    The problem I have is the flat head machine screw either tightens so much that I have to drill it out, or it will back out during operation. A keyway is a necessity. I am thinking about making one out of ASTM 1145 which is sold as "Stressproof" or "Nealloy" which is a relatively easy material to machine that is tough and may not need heat treatment (it can be heat treated similar to Cr-Mo). I plan on making a drawing so if I get a chance...

    Regards to all, Geoff

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    Default runout

    Quote Originally Posted by coyotekid View Post
    I went to use the 1" diameter arbor in our shop today, and this thing wanders around like a drunken sheepherder... I measured .022" total runout in the bore!

    Does anyone make high quality slitting saw arbors commercially or should I just make my own from tool steel and then heat treat?
    .
    i check my tool runout on a optical tool setter and many tools get damaged over time and runout increases and tool holder needs regrinding or replacement
    .
    even if new with less than .001" runout it will not stay that way forever. i recommend repairing or replacing tool holders with the worst runout. until you start measuring tool runout most do not know what their average tool runout is which is almost always far worse than recommended max runout

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    a battery powered impact driver loosens those screws, no problem

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    Use stub arbors all the time holding up to inch wide side and faces.Had a bit spare cash couple years ago looked around for a inch stub arbor with the taper on to fit direct into spindle,sourced a one from America,didnt realise it was made in far east. Price was good waited,waited it eventually came after I had to pay customs the cost escalated to more than l would have paid here.Used it couple times and the hardened shaft cracked.The ones l have had no trouble with are home made use a decent grade steel(1.250dia-approx) turn them to size,put a center in top,keway in,and a tapped hole for a capnut,you need to screw cut it to fit an inch collet and preferably turn a collar onto stop it screwing itself up and putting undue pressure on the center in your(clarkson?) chuck.Those ones that have no keyway in and a mushroon head screw lock on and theres no way of unlocking them unless you drill them out-they can cause the saw to crack-Also as you want to throw all the saws out that run out excessively normally caused by being located on arbors that run out-so they are bent-so turn yourself two or 3 up-finish to size or leave grinding allowance on-you can even stick a turning tool in the vise and finish them to size when they are in the machine spindle-make sure you use a inch collet some people pick the 25m/m up by mistake-Cant see a stub arbor running .022ins out have you got the head trammed-it would have had to be in a serious crash to be that far out-Hope you put your DTI onto the arbor shaft-ran it up and down as well revolving it-dont put it on the saw blade as if the blade is bent it might get you thinking its the arbors fault

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    Default I did make my own.

    I would have preferred to purchase a first class US made hardened unit, but as an amateur the funds are non existent (my cost was less than $10 and about 4 hours). I used AISI 1144 steel round stock which is a material used for shafts. It machines very well and is very tough. It is sold under proprietary names like "Stress Proof" or "Nealloy". It can be heat treated. I don't think that the light duty service I require would justify heat treating.

    The main feature is the key that prevents the cutter from rotating and locking (or loosening) the retaining screw. Yes, I have had to drill a couple of screws out, broken blades, etc. I got lazy with the tang or key and filed it to fit the saw which is not as professional as it should be; will see how durable it is. If anyone wants a drawing just PM me.

    file:///Users/kaymorgan/Desktop/R8-Saw.jpg
    Last edited by 110octane; 12-29-2015 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Add photo


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