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small chuck big lathe... ?

neckyzips

Plastic
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Location
Deltaville
i have a newly acquired Cincinnati 12 1/2 so not a huge lathe, but looks like 6" is the smallest chuck i can get.
i make wrist watches, no i am not wanting to cut pinions on this, but i do need to do the roughing operations for the cases on it. which means i need to take a 3+" dia 316 ss rod and open the inside to 37mm a bit less than 1 1/2" then hold it from the inside to do more work.

any idea on a chuck that can do that and fit the L0 lathe? make soft jaws for the 6" or make an adapter plate to hold the smaller chucks?

ideas?
 
i have a newly acquired Cincinnati 12 1/2 so not a huge lathe, but looks like 6" is the smallest chuck i can get.
i make wrist watches, no i am not wanting to cut pinions on this, but i do need to do the roughing operations for the cases on it. which means i need to take a 3+" dia 316 ss rod and open the inside to 37mm a bit less than 1 1/2" then hold it from the inside to do more work.

any idea on a chuck that can do that and fit the L0 lathe? make soft jaws for the 6" or make an adapter plate to hold the smaller chucks?

ideas?

Make a sandwich plate up to take the smaller chuck - it used to be done ''all the time''

IE a piece of plate (steel CI or durabar etc etc) thick enough to machine a register to bolt to a backplate with the cap heads buried and thick enough again to allow a register for the small chuck to be machines and take the chuck mounting bolts.
 
The Swiss type JF chucks are suited to case making, but only for light cuts. They were/are made in several sizes with 3, 6 or 8 jaws. Soft jaws were available. The 6-jaw versions are called bezel chucks by watchmakers simply because they are usually used for case work. The pictures show a pair of 100 mm size 6-jaw versions with the inside and outside jaws. I mounted them on Hardinge 5C plug chucks and use them in my Hardinge lathes.

Maprox makes JF chucks.
Maprox-Catalogue-EN-Nov16.pdf - Google Drive

The 5C collets can be had in inside or outside grip and are made in many varieties. The old Jacobs 900 rubber collets do not come in an inside gripping version.

Larry

DSC02318.jpg DSC02319.jpg
 
Just make sure you're sitting down when you ask Maprox prices :eek:

I don't know where to see Maprox current list prices. But Levin currently lists the 3, 4 and 6-jaw JF chucks to fit their 100 mm swing lathes (chucks are probably the 70 mm size) for $3500 each. Personally, I never paid new price for mine. SPI used to show the larger JF chucks in their catalogs, but I don't have a recent catalog.

LevinLathe.com: LEVIN CHUCKS

Larry
 
You want a mandrel that you can slide and index your watch case on once you have cut the id.

You can make one up a length that is comfortable for you to work with and hold it in the chuck and tailstock with the case where you need it on the mandrel.

They also make expanding mandrels, if that's more to your liking.
 
used to make 1/8 dia parts, only cnc lathe I had was 10" chuck eng lathe, id just chuck the 3" chuck from my grizzly 7 x 14 lathe in my 10" hard jaws careful not to be too loose, or to too tight, and machine away. I do think making a backing plate of a dia that fits your current chuck jaws conveniently and fits the small chuck easily is the best idea.
 
Buck makes a 4" adjust-tru chuck with a 5C shank. I use one on my Mori SL1 when the part won't fit in a collet and I don't want the trouble of switching to the power chuck.

You could always make a straight-shank backing plate for a small chuck and hold it in a 3-jaw or collet.

Bill
 
You want a mandrel that you can slide and index your watch case on once you have cut the id.

You can make one up a length that is comfortable for you to work with and hold it in the chuck and tailstock with the case where you need it on the mandrel.

They also make expanding mandrels, if that's more to your liking.

Aye. More than one kind, and more than a few sources for 5C.

For more flexibility, and a material easier to machine yer own diameters and shoulders onto/into, at reasonable costs, my "single ender" ones are "straight shank" goods from these guys:

Breakheart Tool Company Products, 8 pc expanding arbor set, 3 pc expanding arbor set, 4 pc expanding arbor set, 5C Collet Stop Set, 5C Expanding Arbors

Not terribly expensive to put by several in just the range(s) used rather than a wide-range "set".

Or fab yer own. Breakheart store-boughts save me the time of having to do that. I don't make watch cases.
 
The Swiss type JF chucks are suited to case making, but only for light cuts. They were/are made in several sizes with 3, 6 or 8 jaws. Soft jaws were available. The 6-jaw versions are called bezel chucks by watchmakers simply because they are usually used for case work. The pictures show a pair of 100 mm size 6-jaw versions with the inside and outside jaws. I mounted them on Hardinge 5C plug chucks and use them in my Hardinge lathes.

Maprox makes JF chucks.
Maprox-Catalogue-EN-Nov16.pdf - Google Drive

The 5C collets can be had in inside or outside grip and are made in many varieties. The old Jacobs 900 rubber collets do not come in an inside gripping version.

Larry

View attachment 288362 View attachment 288363


I have those on the jewelers' lathe, but need a better bite on the case.
 
Make a sandwich plate up to take the smaller chuck - it used to be done ''all the time''

IE a piece of plate (steel CI or durabar etc etc) thick enough to machine a register to bolt to a backplate with the cap heads buried and thick enough again to allow a register for the small chuck to be machines and take the chuck mounting bolts.


maybe, I can just turn a back plate with the L0 taper threads etc to hold the smaller chuck, would stick out a bit, though I suppose it wouldn't much matter.
 
Aye. More than one kind, and more than a few sources for 5C.

For more flexibility, and a material easier to machine yer own diameters and shoulders onto/into, at reasonable costs, my "single ender" ones are "straight shank" goods from these guys:

Breakheart Tool Company Products, 8 pc expanding arbor set, 3 pc expanding arbor set, 4 pc expanding arbor set, 5C Collet Stop Set, 5C Expanding Arbors

Not terribly expensive to put by several in just the range(s) used rather than a wide-range "set".

Or fab yer own. Breakheart store-boughts save me the time of having to do that. I don't make watch cases.


I have made crude versions of those a few times. that could work too. just have several for the different cases etc.
 
I have made crude versions of those a few times. that could work too. just have several for the different cases etc.

Breakhearts are intentionally "low tech" and easy cuttin' 12L so yah don't shed tears - nor a lotta cash - cutting 'em up to fit whatever yah need, then cutting on 'em again.. and again... til eventually it's time for a new one or three.

I figure I can't even DIY 'em as cheaply as Breakheart sell 'em, and surely not "at once", so I've got all the sizes they kit-up laid-by.

And not-only.

You'd have to know tool-whores?

:D

Most other makers are meant more to be used "as-had", on-size (in a range) are high-alloy, and hardened.

What you are probably up to? I'd be tempted to take a well-made store-bought expander mechanism as "mothership" and fab up a stash of stepped bushings in one of the better Bronzes as "consumables" just as much as "adjustables".
 
Breakhearts are intentionally "low tech" and easy cuttin' 12L so yah don't shed tears - nor a lotta cash - cutting 'em up to fit whatever yah need, then cutting on 'em again.. and again... til eventually it's time for a new one or three.

I figure I can't even DIY 'em as cheaply as Breakheart sell 'em, and surely not "at once", so I've got all the sizes they kit-up laid-by.

And not-only.

You'd have to know tool-whores?

:D

Most other makers are meant more to be used "as-had", on-size (in a range) are high-alloy, and hardened.

What you are probably up to? I'd be tempted to take a well-made store-bought expander mechanism as "mothership" and fab up a stash of stepped bushings in one of the better Bronzes as "consumables" just as much as "adjustables".

That would work with light cuts, the cases are typically about 44-52mm in dia so i bore all the seats, and cut a dome or angle on the outside. Then it has to be parted, flipped and the back under cut angled etc, then threaded groved etc.
so the disk ends up being 60/70mm dia. I need a good bite. On the smaller lathe i just grab from the inside and go, but thats a 5" chuck.

What I probably need are machinable steel jaws. Or mandrels for each case chucked in the collet.. or a small 4 jaw. Which was why i was thinking to make a adapter for the L0, but not sure how to cut the key way.
 
That would work with light cuts, the cases are typically about 44-52mm in dia so i bore all the seats, and cut a dome or angle on the outside. Then it has to be parted, flipped and the back under cut angled etc, then threaded groved etc.
so the disk ends up being 60/70mm dia. I need a good bite. On the smaller lathe i just grab from the inside and go, but thats a 5" chuck.

What I probably need are machinable steel jaws. Or mandrels for each case chucked in the collet.. or a small 4 jaw. Which was why i was thinking to make a adapter for the L0, but not sure how to cut the key way.

It really depends on volume and value-per-each. Ten years, I had two parallel environments.

1) My Mfg div would be handed off several hundred cases each year with partial bands, cut to lie flat, all sorts of dial faces, each with hands set at ten minutes of two, NO works inside.

These were the maker's samples the catalog plus brick & mortar parent firm we manufactured for had selected from and photographed for the catalog. You are probably aware that a decent grade 5 Ebel 17J movement was under twelve bucks, those days, bought raw packed, trays of a hundred or more?

So in between holiday panic and overtime rush, we had our watchmakers install movements and our other worker-bees put on bands.

Ths wasn't really ABOUT shaving pennies. It had to do with not seeming to be a one-size-fits-all mass discounter. The watch styles NOT chosen for the catalog then served to round-out the display cases and give folks a far wider choice.

NO NEED of any work to those cases.

They had been made for stock Swiss movement sizes already. All we had to do, and even than only RARELY, was use one of the many factory-made bushings they had available to adapt from 2 or 3 other movements.

2) The watches we actually DID "make" also utilized stock Swiss movements, but.. came from folks such as Fibo, in Italy in gold or platinum. Those were "jewelry", not timepieces. My lead Diamond setter cut the fit for the movement with a Foredom and burr, than set the diamonds and corundels, pave'd the band or bracelet.

As much as $26,000 in 1986 or so US dollars for the featured "leader" each year, 1974-84.

You are doing "neither of the above", of course.

So we are back to what amount of investment in "store bought" tooling, "shop-fabbed" tooling, or NO "real" or"bespoke" tooling at all makes best sense vs the price - or savings/NOT savings of your own TIME.

All this in a world where folk don't much wear watches.

If our yellyphone or our "puter dasn't know the time of day?

We usually don't actually give a damn.


2CW
 








 
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