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    Default Solid rivetting

    I am trying to learn the technique for installing solid rivets, but having rather bad results, so want to run it by you to determine what i am doing wrong.

    1. I tried to set 1/4" steel and 1/4" aluminium rivets.
    2. The tool I am using is an adjustable power air hammer with rivet attachment. Ingersoll Rand Air Hammer 114GQC with Anndason 7 Pcs Great Heavy Duty Smoothing Pneumatic Air Rivet Hammer Tools Kit.

    The problem that i am having is that the total power required is more than i can comfortably handle to prevent the hammer from walking.

    My question is: are 1/4" rivets simply too big to start with (should I go with 1/8" rivets to learn the technique?) or is my issue lies more in the use of air hammer rather than the use of dedicated rivet hammer? I suspect, but don't know for sure, that air hammer hits harder and less often than a real riviter. I was hoping to deal with that by adjusting the power, but no luck so far.
    The air hammer has a flow adjuster in the handle, i can try to play with PSI input instead. Now trying it at 90psi...

    I guess my real question is if I should even bother trying to tune and learn with this hammer or do I have to get a real air riveter?

    Thanks ahead

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    start with a hammer, then try a hammer and a rivet setting tool. THEN try a power hammer. 1/4 shouldn't be difficult.

    what kind of head are you trying to to do? round head, flat head 82 deg, flat head 100 deg?

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    So, riveting is as much of an art as it is science. Yes you are starting with too big of rivets, you need to learn on #30 rivets (a small one). The larger the rivet the harder they are to set without smiling the rivet or dent the metal. One key point is to make sure you do not let the bucking bar bounce or the air hammer bounce. I can actually hear when someone is not set on the rivet correctly from across a shop. You’ll get there, my suggestion would be to go to your local airport and see if there is an A&P mechanic that knows how and will show you the basics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    start with a hammer, then try a hammer and a rivet setting tool. THEN try a power hammer. 1/4 shouldn't be difficult.

    what kind of head are you trying to to do? round head, flat head 82 deg, flat head 100 deg?
    The rivets i have are round head.
    When i watch the youtube videos it seems like the rivets set in like 2 seconds of hammering, in my case even several sets of 2 second bursts don't flatten the bucking bar side of the rivet. If i do longer bursts the gun is starting to walk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcm81 View Post
    The rivets i have are round head.
    When i watch the youtube videos it seems like the rivets set in like 2 seconds of hammering, in my case even several sets of 2 second bursts don't flatten the bucking bar side of the rivet. If i do longer bursts the gun is starting to walk.
    this is confusing. if you are doing round heads on both sides, nothing gets flattened, so "don't flatten the bucking bar side" doesn't comport with round head rivets. what I'm asking is what is the head form on the end you are setting?

    if you are trying to set a round head pre formed rivet with a flat head on the other side by hammering on the preformed round head with the air hammer, you are doing it backwards.

    a bucking bar with a correctly sized hemispherical depression should go on the back side, and a flat anvil used in the air hammer if you are trying to set a round/flat combo.

    (unless its on a thin sheet like an aircraft wing skin where there is enough give to accommodate the stroke needed to set the rivet)

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    Listen, I’ve literally set over a million rivets on aircraft, I’m not sure what you are trying to set but if you want/need actual advise on this private message me. I’d be happy to talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RueBear View Post
    Listen, I’ve literally set over a million rivets on aircraft, I’m not sure what you are trying to set but if you want/need actual advise on this private message me. I’d be happy to talk.
    hey Rue, I've set lots of rivets, but none on aircraft, so wish to learn. does an external flat head ever get bucked as described above? round head anvil on the air hammer inside, flat buck on the outside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    this is confusing. if you are doing round heads on both sides, nothing gets flattened, so "don't flatten the bucking bar side" doesn't comport with round head rivets. what I'm asking is what is the head form on the end you are setting?

    if you are trying to set a round head pre formed rivet with a flat head on the other side by hammering on the preformed round head with the air hammer, you are doing it backwards.

    a bucking bar with a correctly sized hemispherical depression should go on the back side, and a flat anvil used in the air hammer if you are trying to set a round/flat combo.

    (unless its on a thin sheet like an aircraft wing skin where there is enough give to accommodate the stroke needed to set the rivet)
    Thanks. This makes sense. I was using the air hammer with round preformed attachment on the round head and using the bucking bar on the end to be flattened. I actually put the rivet through a piece of thick, stiff leather, held in vise, to simulate the sheet metal, so there is plenty of give. I added a washer on the non-preformed side to leave 1.5x diameter of the rivet sticking out, which is where the bucking bar is going.

    I had no issues setting copper rivets that are used in leather working, using just a hammer and properly shaped jig, but when i moved to bigger and stronger rivets coupled with an air hammer the issues surfaced.

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    Not in the aviation world as a rule of thumb, that being said sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. When riveting round head rivets on aircraft skin the rivet Gun has an anvil with the appropriate size and the bucking bar is flat. If you have the gun up to high you’ll dent the skin, if the bucking bar comes off you long set the rivet, if the gun hopes of you sent the skin or smile the rivet. Keeping a flat anvil on a gun in contact with the rivet is no easy task even for an experienced guy.

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    Also, your ears will tell you when you have a good set. Your listening for an increase in pitch in the sound, an even smooth set has a very distinctive sound.

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    Who is using 1/4" Steel rivets on aircraft ?

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    Our engineers put 1/4” steel rivets through a titanium track to secure a small aluminum panel. Double flush (countersunk) rivets were installed by using two rivet guns, one on each side. If I recall correctly, they were both 7X guns. The guy on the lower end (formed head side) had to work the rivet into the countersink & fill it completely. Took about 2-3 minutes, we moved that installation to 2nd shift so the noise affected less people. Guys doing the job wore ear plugs plus muffs. About 12-15 airframes was all anyone could take the pounding.

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    I’ve used 1/4 rivets counter sunk and rounds on aircraft spars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RueBear View Post
    I’ve used 1/4 rivets counter sunk and rounds on aircraft spars.
    I figured any steel rivet (on that size especially) would be a fancy cherrylock or other pull type, not plain old "Bash em in" type.

    Learn sumthin' new here everyday.

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    If you have a press brake, make some tooling and do it in the press brake.

    We have one part that uses solid rivets. Stainless rivets that joint three cosmetic stainless steel pieces. We f'ed around for a while with air hammers and then more expensive rivetting air hammers. And we scrapped a bunch of parts being up their surfaces. This is all for an annual quantity of about 100 rivets per year.

    Then I made some simple holders that go in the press brake and use standard rivet squeezer tooling available from "The Yard". And now it is a press brake operation that anyone can do. Highly recommended. We use our press brake for all manners of depth controlled operations. PEM hardware. Staking. Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I figured any steel rivet (on that size especially) would be a fancy cherrylock or other pull type, not plain old "Bash em in" type.

    Learn sumthin' new here everyday.

    "Upsetting" metals - the core technique as underpins the very concept of rivets as a tribe, is seriously useful, all around. First exposure was on the farm. Store-bought soft-iron rivets used to replace the teeth on sickle-bar mowers. Fast, simple, reliable, and CHEAP versus threaded fasteners. My age, it was still being taught at school, later on.

    Thing to learn is how any given metal "flows". Not as simple as "bash". Start a rivet with two pieces NOT tight to each other? Yah don't have a joining. Yah now have an axle on a stand-off. Get all that into yer noggin faster with ignorant hammer and anvil than anything powered. And then you "own it".

    Fastener does not always even need to have a head, either end. I've assembled many a fixture for production line use by simply heavily "upsetting" steel dowel pins fully inside a bore and surface-ground dead-flush. Need a "blind" one? C-bore the down-hole end of the "rivet" a tad. The weakened wall will "Timoshenko" upset right tight with modest effort.

    We've all seen the effect of in-bore "upsetting".

    "Upsetting" of the BODY is why some b***dy taper pins refuse to come out easily, even when ground flush, BOTH ends! Even WITH a taper meant to reduce or eliminate that sort of binding.

    Mind, proper heads, properly inspected are preferred if I'm buying an airplane ride, but still..

    Around the shop, around the home or farm, there are MANY things even a hasty DIY rivet can do easily as well as a threaded fastener if not BETTER. And no risk of breaking an expensive TAP nor even wasting time attempting to break it just to prove one CAN, either.



    Rivets have earned an honourable place. Haven't quit, yet.

    Wise to respect that, "be aware" how useful they can be.

    And learn to set 'em and set 'em WELL.. "by hand", first.

    Riveting gun has no brains, can't "lend" what it lacks. The operator has to bring the brains - and the understanding of what he's going about doing - in the door with him.

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    riveting could be a verb or adjective....


    what a racket . a machine gun would be less noisy.

    get your wife to buck ... it will be over in minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnmgcarbide View Post
    riveting could be a verb or adjective....


    what a racket . a machine gun would be less noisy.

    get your wife to buck ... it will be over in minutes.
    Huh? "Rosie the riveter" was no joke. Thousands of wimmin built and skinned aircraft, War Two. Some think they took to it as a substitute for what they would have LIKED to have done to the heads - greater or lesser - of inattentive menfolk...


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    Anneal the rivets before use


    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Anneal the rivets before use


    Peter
    While you're at it, polish your bucking bars.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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