Source for 5-40 taps with no reduced shank
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default Source for 5-40 taps with no reduced shank

    I am running through tons of taps on a stainless job I have done in the past. Its 316L .187" dia.

    I have tried 3 different kinds...Gold (TIN), Black (TICN), and HSS Black Ox/Bright finish.

    I just put it on another machine and when I set it up I used a plug tap to get it where I wanted it. The tap had no reduced shank but the chips were packed in the part (as it should).

    As soon as I went to the Gold tap I snapped 3 in 5 parts. These taps had the smallest shank on it. They all broke on the way in, towards the bottom.

    I am having a hard time finding a good source for full thickness shank taps in the smaller sizes (Spiral Flute, Bottom).

    I ran 5k of these with 3 taps last time I ran it. I was at first getting 300ish parts per tap. Is that normal? was I just lucky for some reason I made 4k parts on 2 taps?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,880
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    669
    Likes (Received)
    3835

    Default

    I thought all 5-40 taps have a .141 inch shank. Please explain what you mean by reduced shank.

    What tapping fluid are you using?

    Larry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/65674954

    See how the shank that is beyond the thread is reduced. I need the threads to go all the way back without reducing size throughout the tool. The taps I have been using are so thin in that area that they snap way too easy. I need the tap to be as thick as it can be all the way throughout as to be stronger so they dont snap at the weak spot.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    4,578
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1207
    Likes (Received)
    2560

    Default

    https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/WIDIA-GTD-Vanadium-High-Speed-Steel-WP7025931/_/N-18klZ1yza8ws?searchFlag=Browse&breadcrumbCatId=533 1&fromPidp=true&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4AHX1_AS01?$smthumb$webparentimage$

    Here is something from Grainger, but $8 isn't bad.

    R

    Posted from my phone, just copy and paste

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/WIDIA-GTD-Vanadium-High-Speed-Steel-WP7025931/_/N-18klZ1yza8ws?searchFlag=Browse&breadcrumbCatId=533 1&fromPidp=true&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4AHX1_AS01?$smthumb$webparentimage$

    Here is something from Grainger, but $8 isn't bad.

    R

    Posted from my phone, just copy and paste
    These taps arent bottom taps. I need spiral flute taps where the threads go full length of the shank. Like these.

    WESTWARD 5TWR0 Spiral Flute Tap,Bottom,#5-40,S/O,3 Flt 190735876961 | eBay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,857
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1279
    Likes (Received)
    3687

    Default

    roll taps work awesome on 316, and they never break

  7. Likes Milland, plastikdreams, Flute Maker liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    198
    Likes (Received)
    1222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    roll taps work awesome on 316, and they never break
    Bingo...was his name o

  9. Likes Thunderjet liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    cant say I have ever tried roll taps. This may be the solution.

  11. Likes Mike in Wi liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    198
    Likes (Received)
    1222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    cant say I have ever tried roll taps. This may be the solution.
    No material removed, no chips in the bottom and in the flutes

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    No material removed, no chips in the bottom and in the flutes
    My old man says they were always used in softer materials like brass and aluminum. He comes from old school machining techniques and hasnt changed anything since the 70's.

    We run Brown and Sharpe screw machines. Still using tooling from 30 years ago. New old stock mostly. Anyone got speeds and feeds for form taps? Should I stick with the same numbers for cut taps?

    I am kind of excited to try this now. It makes sense. I know the material is pretty soft. Its not getting work hardened when drilled out. Just had issues with smaller taps not having much "meat" on the shank and snapping.

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,857
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1279
    Likes (Received)
    3687

    Default

    I had to tap a bunch of M2's in 304 a while back. Someone suggested form taps and I thought, no way, this stuff is way too hard. I ran the whole job with one drill and one tap.

    That size of tap, 500 rpm would be reasonable. Are you working to a spec? I usually ream the pilot hole. A few tenths on your starting dia can make a huge difference in your resulting minor dia.

  15. Likes DanASM liked this post
  16. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    198
    Likes (Received)
    1222

    Default

    Just remember a form tap uses a different hole size than a standard tap.

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    No spec. I am also making the male part that goes into it so I can check for proper fit. I was tapping at 620rpm I believe. I know I tried a few speeds from 555-750.

    I did check for the right drill size and it looks like I have to call Guhring due to MSC not having them in stock (need left handed).

    When I ran this job 8 months ago I had way better luck drilling the hole to the major diameter (a little over what the book calls for). I cant seem to replicate this. Even tried it on another machine and couldnt get better results.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Norfolk England
    Posts
    2,273
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2616
    Likes (Received)
    1679

    Default

    Use the same set up and give it a go. Form threading is usually done at higher revs but if you are sure that the cut tap was not crowding on the way in or out then you should be fine.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    2,529
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2275
    Likes (Received)
    1088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post

    When I ran this job 8 months ago I had way better luck drilling the hole to the major diameter (a little over what the book calls for). I cant seem to replicate this. Even tried it on another machine and couldnt get better results.
    Is it the same batch of steel? I've seen pretty massive differences in 316L bar from different suppliers. Some is pretty nice, some is pretty nightmarish.

  20. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Just remember a form tap uses a different hole size than a standard tap.
    The pitch diameter tolerance on a 5-40 internal thread is min. 0.1088 and max. 0.1121. If a form tap is used then use a drill as close to 0.1121" as possible. A metric drill (2.80 or even 2.85mm) is also an option.

    You'll also get a stronger thread with a form tap and, as mentioned, no tap cuttings.

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1541
    Likes (Received)
    1770

    Default

    I think OP said he is making mating part so not applicable here. But on some things, form tapping is "not allowed" per customer specs so be wary.

    I agree it is a stronger thread, and much easier to do with no chips and such. Have no clue why it is forbidden in some areas/specs/applications....

  22. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I think OP said he is making mating part so not applicable here. But on some things, form tapping is "not allowed" per customer specs so be wary.

    I agree it is a stronger thread, and much easier to do with no chips and such. Have no clue why it is forbidden in some areas/specs/applications....
    You've got me wondering why form tapping wouldn't be allowed. Can anyone give a logical reason?

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    cant say I have ever tried roll taps. This may be the solution.
    Can you post a follow up if you decide to go this route?
    Thanks

  24. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1541
    Likes (Received)
    1770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    You've got me wondering why form tapping wouldn't be allowed. Can anyone give a logical reason?
    Can't say it is logical, but I have seen it in specs for aero parts. Of course I don't think much of it is logic at all, it is tradition(?), and no one wanting to deal with engineering reveiws /approvals etc...


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •