Source for custom size high pressure carbon fiber tanks?

Anybody know a source for one off custom size tanks? Approx 16" dia, 30-40 in. length, 4,500 psi? I'm real flexible on the sizes so possibly there is an off the shelf tank out there somewhere. Most tanks have a relatively small straight or npt opening, I need two inch threads for a two inch ball valve. Also, if I'm correct, the aluminum or steel base tank is thin and simply is a form for the high strength wrap and doesn't need much strength by itself. If this is the case I may be able to furnish the inner form the would need fiber wrapping.

Search Google for "composite pressure vessels" or "Carbon wrapped pressure vessels", you'll get hits like this:

Composite Pressure Vessels | Steelhead Composites They offer a range of stock OD's, including 13" and 17".

For process and liability reasons I strongly doubt any company would let you provide an inner tank, but you can ask.

Let us know who you go with and the approximate cost.

Why carbon fiber and not fiberglass or a metal tank?
Bill D.

Milland, Wow! Great source, sounds perfect for my needs, I can't wait to contact them Monday to discuss it with them. Odd, all my searches never produced anything even close to these guys. I'll let you know how it works out for me, many thanks for posting!! If you want to send me your email address through private messaging, I'll send you what I'm doing, it is an amazing project! I love pushing the envelope for extreme and this one really takes the cake.

Bill D said:

Why carbon fiber and not fiberglass or a metal tank?
Bill D.

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Weight is the reason, at present I have several steel 4,500 psi tanks and a standard cylinder is around 12 gallon capacity and weighs 165 lbs.

Bluechipx said:

Milland, Wow! Great source, sounds perfect for my needs, I can't wait to contact them Monday to discuss it with them. Odd, all my searches never produced anything even close to these guys.

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I have spent many years in Tibet with a Google-Fu Master, my search Ch'i is strong...

I'll send a contact PM, but you can email me directly from mine too.

Your size and pressure requirements are typical of CNG cylinders for trucks, etc. In my experience the fittings for those are way smaller than 2", but perhaps that might be an option to look at if the other doesn't pan out.

Bill D said:

Why carbon fiber and not fiberglass or a metal tank?
Bill D.

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Higher tensile strength.

Not sure I've ever seen a 2" threaded ball valve good for 4500psi, and good luck turning it if you find one. ANSI 2500# equip isn't cheap but it is available, that may be a route.

Why such a big connection?

Cole2534 said:

. . .Why such a big connection?

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Maybe he's doing some 'punkin chunkin'!

You can get a 6000 psi, 2”NPT ball valve from McMaster-Carr... actually cheaper than I thought it would be:



Like a lot of the others chiming in here, I’m wondering what your application is?!?

It sounds like you’re trying to make some big-port accumulators, I’m guessing high pressure air from your questions. That being said, still interested in what your purpose is...

I do motion picture special effects and this sounds like what we often use for pneumatic car cannons or accelerators... I’m sure there are other industries that may have use for a lightweight air accumulator with a massive port, but I don’t know of any.

Parker-Hannifin, as well as most hydraulic accumulator manufacturers can easily supply what you’re looking for... but I’ve never seen a hydraulic or pneumatic accumulator made from carbon fiber. Typically weight isn’t such a concern in those applications. But basically the pneumatic setup is simply a bladder accumulator sans bladder.

Dan Sudick has rack of high-pressure accumulators to store pressure for his BIG ratchet... For the non-movie folk out there, a ratchet is an accelerator. Think of the previous generation aircraft carrier catapults, powered by compressed gas instead of steam. Basically a hydraulic cylinder with some combination of pulleys to compound the rods stroke. Sudick’s big ratchet MASSIVE. Something like a 12” bore, 25-foot stroke cylinder with three BIG ports on the rod side. If memory serves that device can be compounded four times for a total pull of 125’, give or take.

JD Schwalm opened the ports on aluminum dive tanks to 1” ORB/SAE fittings. However, after doing hydrostatic testing he limits those accumulators to 2000psi.

I’ve worked with other guys who just use hydraulic hose for accumulation. Again, I’m not certain of the max pressures, but you could looking into a length of -32, or -48 hydraulic hose.

In any case, I’m just speculating as I don’t know what your end goal is. I will shy you away from using NPT fittings and recommend fittings of the SAE flavor. Especially if, I’m assuming here, mobility is part of your equation and that’s why weight is a concern. Mr. Murphy LOVES tapered fittings... they prove his law every time... it’s guaranteed that you’ll never get the fitting clock you need AND the seal you need at the same time with tapered fittings. Clocking SAE fittings is always easier. O-Ring boss, flange or face seal fittings are all available in the size you want up to -64 sizes I believe??? Hose as well. Above that you have to hard pipe with flange fittings if memory serves.

Again, not fully understanding your application, I’m having to make assumptions.



Jeremy

For some reason I thought the OP was talking about gas pressures, not hydraulic. Those valves you show are specific to hydraulic use, and while they will work on gasses, they last longer when lubricated with hydraulic oil. (I use one on an air system, but its a 5,000psi valve used on 250psi)

I did get some information and movies from the OP on his application, and it is for a "mobility" use. But I don't have permission to post what he sent me, so hopefully he'll follow up with links.

Tip: if you watch the videos, don't wear headphones, and turn the speakers down until the first run-through.

I have seen the FritoLay semi trucks that run on propane. They appear to have a stack of water heater size cylinders on their sides stacked 4-5 high behind the cab. I have no idea in CNG trucks would have similar cylinders. I was really expecting one big rectangular cylinder but the physics of a cylinder is stronger then a flat panel for containing pressure.
Bill D

Blog Post | Delivering Those Fritos: Clean-Burning Natural Gas Trucks | Car Talk

In my experience, pressure is pressure. If that valve is in any way USING hydraulic oil as part of its operating process that means it is leaking... or bypassing... either way it’s BROKEN.

I’m still intrigued to learn something about WHY the OP has the requirements he has.

Original post calls for:
A) 4500 PSI
B) @16”x 30” vessel
with a
C) 2” fitting

My assumption is this is for compressed gas.
Great means to generate a lot of force, fast, quick and in a hurry... one time. Next assumption is that weight is a primary concern. Understandable. But a 16”x 30” cylinder, even filled to 4500 PSI, isn’t going to last very long through a 2” valve.

In my screwy, Hollywood, plastic fantastic, world I could see a couple of these used to launch a car. Several of them could power a big accelerator... but we don’t work that far from the road the generator truck drove in on, so I wouldn’t pay the premium for carbon wrapped tanks.

A 2” column of any compressed gas has a a great amount of potential. With the OP’s vessel size it strikes me you’ll shoot your wad immediately.

WTF are you trying to do???



Jeremy

I would be VERY concerned about having any lubricating oil in contact with 4500 PSI air. That is a real no-no in the scuba world. High pressure oxygen and flammable oil/grease are a bad combination, and the partial pressure of oxygen at 4500 psi of air is something like 900 psi. In any case, before committing to a valve, I suggest verifying that it is safe for this application with expert advice.

Michael

Milland said:

I did get some information and movies from the OP on his application, and it is for a "mobility" use. But I don't have permission to post what he sent me, so hopefully he'll follow up with links.

Tip: if you watch the videos, don't wear headphones, and turn the speakers down until the first run-through.

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Milland, you now have my permission to post the pictures and video I sent. I'm not great at posting so try to include everything I sent you to give a good idea of what I'm up to! Volume down the first time watching? Where is your sense of adventure! Having the volume way up is somewhat what it was like for the group of us that nervously witnessed it, squinting faces and nervous jitters anticipating the second the valve would snap open with a remote radio control was priceless!!

Bluechipx said:

Milland, you now have my permission to post the pictures and video I sent. I'm not great at posting so try to include everything I sent you to give a good idea of what I'm up to! Volume down the first time watching? Where is your sense of adventure! Having the volume way up is somewhat what it was like for the group of us that nervously witnessed it, squinting faces and nervous jitters anticipating the second the valve would snap open with a remote radio control was priceless!!

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Ok, now this, I gotta see.

TeachMePlease said:

Ok, now this, I gotta see.

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Heh! Well, maybe I'll just wait a little bit.

Delay.

Draw out the tension a liiiitle bit longer...

[I'm such a jerk]

OP is working on a small Hydro racing boat, here's two clips:

[Open the links, then click on the image]

Shared album - Kyle Burnett - Google Photos

Shared album - Kyle Burnett, morgan4xl, Jayden Luchie, [email][email protected][/email] - Google Photos


Here's some of what he wrote about the boat:

" I have only tested to 3,000 psi so far. I have a gauge that shows thrust in pounds and have seen 9,500 lbs of push so far. The vids I am sending were only 1,200 psi and I test with water or just air. Other pics show where it will be eventually put. I saw a hydrogen peroxide drag car with 4,500 lbs of thrust run from a dead stop to 300 mph and he only run the rocket for two and a half seconds and coasted the rest of the way through. Turn your volume way up for the vid, it really still can't capture the incredible sound that rocks the neighborhood!

Bitchin!!!
And now I understand the weight concerns.
And here’s another option to investigate:
Use available tanks, fiber-reinforced or whatever flavor is LIGHTEST. Swap the valves for straight-through fittings and plumb to a manifold. Build your valve into that manifold. Every piece of plumbing before the valve is just added accumulation. Using multiple smaller tanks gives better options to use as ballast.

I’m guessing there’s not even an attempt to throttle? Pull the pin and let’er rip?

Guessing no rider either?

Air isn’t AS fast as pyrotechnics are, or rockets for those FAR smarter than I. That being said, in movie world the insurance adjusters REALLY don’t like powder-actuated stuff at all. From ram-set to car cannon:

Unlike explosives, using pneumatic or hydraulic actuation can be gauged. Enough so to not have to factor as a variable. So much PSI through X-sized hole provides Y-amount of push. Hydraulics are even better from that respect, but the whole pump, hoses, etc when your thing can’t be tethered.
Compressed gas, whatever the flavor, WANTS to equalize. As mentioned above, O2, and even atmospheric mixes containing said, are too dangerous for my blood. Also really expensive to waste. Use nitrogen.

I’m interested to see your valve. PM me and I’ll show you some of mine. You mentioned RC... out of my wheelhouse, but easy enough, just to let it rip.

Cool project, don’t hurt anyone.



Jeremy