source for M4 .7 flat head screw t15 drive

garychipmaker · Jul 11, 2018

I need to replace the worn screws in a 3"face mill at work .I cant find any numbers on the face mill which I believe may be a Mitsusubishi It uses SPEB 432 inserts I have found some general purpose screws with hex or a T10 drive but nothing with the T15 drive size with a flat head 8-12 mm length would work

CarbideBob · Jul 11, 2018

If you want insert screws there is no better place to look than here for the sizes:
RMC Tooling Company Torque Screws
Also sold though many e-yuck and most tool distributors under a private label but coming from the same place.
I have used them.... well since... forever.
Not sure how small of quantities they will sell or if they sell direct to end users but their info is priceless in finding standard hardware.
Bob

garychipmaker · Jul 11, 2018

thanks for the info I tried calling them but got a answering machine .I'll try tommorrow

juergenwt · Jul 12, 2018

garychipmaker said:
I need to replace the worn screws in a 3"face mill at work .I cant find any numbers on the face mill which I believe may be a Mitsusubishi It uses SPEB 432 inserts I have found some general purpose screws with hex or a T10 drive but nothing with the T15 drive size with a flat head 8-12 mm length would work

Question: what is an M4.7 screw? If it is a standard M4 with a length of 10mm than call for M4 x 10. I don't think there is such a thing as an M4.7

garychipmaker · Jul 12, 2018

juergenwt said:
Question: what is an M4.7 screw? If it is a standard M4 with a length of 10mm than call for M4 x 10. I don't think there is such a thing as an M4.7

M4-.7 pitch

awander · Jul 12, 2018

It seems Gary is slightly punctuation-challenged...

Mr-Mike · Jul 12, 2018

.7 is the common pitch for a M4 screw, RTL Fastners should have what you are looking for too.

billmac · Jul 13, 2018

Mr-Mike said:
.7 is the common pitch for a M4 screw, RTL Fastners should have what you are looking for too.

The pitch of M4 is 0.7 by definition. Saying it is the common pitch suggests that there are alternative pitches for M4 which is incorrect.

awander · Jul 13, 2018

billmac said:
The pitch of M4 is 0.7 by definition. Saying it is the common pitch suggests that there are alternative pitches for M4 which is incorrect.

Have you never heard of M4x0.5?

triumph406 · Jul 13, 2018

billmac said:
The pitch of M4 is 0.7 by definition. Saying it is the common pitch suggests that there are alternative pitches for M4 which is incorrect.

Priceless.

billmac · Jul 13, 2018

awander said:
Have you never heard of M4x0.5?

Yes, certainly, but M4 is not the same as M4 X 0.5

The use of the description 'M4' without any qualification means a 4mm thread with a pitch of 0.7 and only 0.7.

CarbideBob · Jul 13, 2018

I don't think a standard flat head will work very well in this application.
Should be an ISO hole which needs the steeper taper.

awander · Jul 13, 2018

billmac said:
Yes, certainly, but M4 is not the same as M4 X 0.5

The use of the description 'M4' without any qualification means a 4mm thread with a pitch of 0.7 and only 0.7.

Touche....

LKeithR · Jul 13, 2018

billmac said:
The pitch of M4 is 0.7 by definition. Saying it is the common pitch suggests that there are alternative pitches for M4 which is incorrect.

While this is technically correct, at least in the metric world, you have to remember that in the part of the world where inches are
still predominant we're used to dealing with the idea that a single diameter can--and often does-- have multiple pitches. To avoid
mistakes or any kind of confusion it's necessary to specify both a diameter and a pitch. While it may be a faux pas to identify a
metric thread by both diameter and pitch it's certainly not a crime.

In any case I'd rather have too much information than not
enough; thus avoiding errors that require any kind of rework...

juergenwt · Jul 13, 2018

LKeithR said:
While this is technically correct, at least in the metric world, you have to remember that in the part of the world where inches are
still predominant we're used to dealing with the idea that a single diameter can--and often does-- have multiple pitches. To avoid
mistakes or any kind of confusion it's necessary to specify both a diameter and a pitch. While it may be a faux pas to identify a
metric thread by both diameter and pitch it's certainly not a crime. In any case I'd rather have too much information than not
enough; thus avoiding errors that require any kind of rework...

Thank you LKeithR.
Only in the US can you list a pitch to designate a standard coarse metric thread. ANSI really screwed this up. Everywhere in the world no pitch is listed for standard coarse. If s pitch is listed for a thread, than it is a metric fine thread.
US & Metric Thread Standard Chart | Carr Lane
Saves a lot of time and confusion when looking at a print and you see things like M10, M12, M16 etc. Those are always the coarsest metric thread available for that size and are the standard.
If you see a metric thread listed with a pitch , than that is a metric fine.
It drives engineers and technicians all over the world nut when they see American prints that list a pitch for a standard thread because they think they are dealing with a metric fine and special tooling may be needed.

triumph406 · Jul 13, 2018

juergenwt said:
Thank you LKeithR.
Only in the US can you list a pitch to designate a standard coarse metric thread. ANSI really screwed this up. Everywhere in the world no pitch is listed for standard coarse. If s pitch is listed for a thread, than it is a metric fine thread.
US & Metric Thread Standard Chart | Carr Lane
Saves a lot of time and confusion when looking at a print and you see things like M10, M12, M16 etc. Those are always the coarsest metric thread available for that size and are the standard.
If you see a metric thread listed with a pitch , than that is a metric fine.
It drives engineers and technicians all over the world nut when they see American prints that list a pitch for a standard thread because they think they are dealing with a metric fine and special tooling may be needed.

If I do a drawing and on the rare occasion it requires metric threads, I'm going to call out the diameter and the pitch. In other words I'm not going to assume that if I only call out the dia the guy making the part is going to assume I want the coarse thread, or even now why just the thread diameter is called out

Also if I'm working on parts which require metric threads in aluminum and steel parts from a specific customer I'm going to ask what pitch they want, as they only list the thread diameter. I ask because for a fact I know they don't know what pitch they want. And I'm sure their not the only one.

In other words I don't care what any standard says I'm not taking the chance of scrapping parts, or somebody else scrapping parts because the wrong thread pitch was used.

billmac · Jul 13, 2018

triumph406 said:
If I do a drawing and on the rare occasion it requires metric threads, I'm going to call out the diameter and the pitch. In other words I'm not going to assume that if I only call out the dia the guy making the part is going to assume I want the coarse thread, or even now why just the thread diameter is called out

That appears to be local custom and practice in some parts of the USA, and perhaps does no great harm provided that you are sourcing locally or are making a part to a USA originated drawing. If you do want to call out the pitch, then it would probably be a good idea to call out both the pitch and the length explicitly saying which is which since there is a good possibility of ambiguity with this approach, as seen earlier in this thread. For example a hypothetical M6 X 4 fastener means M6 thread with a 4 mm length, definitely not 4mm pitch.

If you want to make parts for a customer outside of USA or want to buy a part from a 'foreign' source then your policy may cause some embarassment, because those customers and suppliers will be puzzled why you are not following ISO standards and wonder if there is a problem when there probably is none.

CarbideBob · Jul 14, 2018

Duh,
It's not a pitch problem, that ones very clear from post#1.
It's a head and shape problem.
It is a somewhat special screw.
If you do not know why this takes a 40 to 60 included degree taper on the screw head maybe you should buy a clue about ISO insert holes, how and why they work.
Bob

Gordon B. Clarke · Jul 14, 2018

billmac said:
Yes, certainly, but M4 is not the same as M4 X 0.5

The use of the description 'M4' without any qualification means a 4mm thread with a pitch of 0.7 and only 0.7.

100% correct. M4 means a 0.7mm pitch ad also the tolerance 6g. M4x0.5 is a metric fine thread. The same as UNC and UNF. If the thread tolerance on a UN thread isn't given then it's 2A.

A external M4 thread could also be written as M4x0.7-6g but is unnecessary. By the same token an internal M4 thread has a tolerance of 6H - unless otherwise stated.

http://f-m-s.dk/THREAD PITCH DIAMETER TOLERANCE AREAS.pdf

Gordon B. Clarke · Jul 14, 2018

triumph406 said:
If I do a drawing and on the rare occasion it requires metric threads, I'm going to call out the diameter and the pitch. In other words I'm not going to assume that if I only call out the dia the guy making the part is going to assume I want the coarse thread, or even now why just the thread diameter is called out

Also if I'm working on parts which require metric threads in aluminum and steel parts from a specific customer I'm going to ask what pitch they want, as they only list the thread diameter. I ask because for a fact I know they don't know what pitch they want. And I'm sure their not the only one.

In other words I don't care what any standard says I'm not taking the chance of scrapping parts, or somebody else scrapping parts because the wrong thread pitch was used.

It's up to you but if buying from a "metric country" probably overkill. If I saw a metric thread given on a drawing and with the pitch noted my first thought would be "Oh oh, it's not standard".

In this respect the "American system" with UNC, UNF and UNEF might be more foolproof. And yet often I see an American thread (UNC, UNF and UNEF) given with the pitch despite there being only one pitch for each.

source for M4 .7 flat head screw t15 drive

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