Sourcing A36 angle iron and round rod in midwest with inhouse cutting? Locals are hi

huleo · Feb 27, 2020

I need to look a bit outside our area for a production job we have, so it warrants trying to save a bit. I think we have decided we need to find a supplier that has competitive saw cutting to just chop stuff up for us. There are many cuts but almost all are the same length so I would think they could stack these up and make light work of it.

Some of our lengths will extend to 30ft and for some reason our locals charge 'more' for 40' sticks compared to 20' sticks.

Materials would likely be 1.5x1.5x.1875" and 2x2x.25"

We are estimating that we will ramp to around 300-400k lbs/yr but we are going to have to make our initial test order around 5k lbs while we work through R&D.

DDoug · Feb 27, 2020

huleo said:
I need to look a bit outside our area for a production job we have, so it warrants trying to save a bit. I think we have decided we need to find a supplier that has competitive saw cutting to just chop stuff up for us. There are many cuts but almost all are the same length so I would think they could stack these up and make light work of it.

Some of our lengths will extend to 30ft and for some reason our locals charge 'more' for 40' sticks compared to 20' sticks.

We are estimating that we will ramp to around 300-400k lbs/yr but we are going to have to make our initial test order around 5k lbs while we work through R&D.

2" x 2" x 1/8" or 6" x 6" x 3/4" ?

Makes a difference.

In my designs, I've been trying to get away from hot rolled angle.
Unless, the job is a simple cut and weld.

More so, designs involve milled slots, holes, etc. and I change to laser cut flat plate, and then press brake to angle.

Less material sizes to stock, less hand work (saw, layout, drill, mill etc.)
Simply laser & bend.

huleo · Feb 27, 2020

My bad. Got you covered on the material dims above! This is a simple cut/weld job and price will be very important so I would think hot rolled is likely our best option?

DDoug · Feb 27, 2020

huleo said:
My bad. Got you covered on the material dims above! This is a simple cut/weld job and price will be very important so I would think hot rolled is likely our best option?

Yes, I agree.

Only other problem with HR is the scale.

With laser/plasma, we use P&O (that is pickled and oiled) sheet, so after fabrication, a simple phospo clean (can be used with a steam cleaner) or wipe down with a solvent/cleaner and paint.

Mtndew · Feb 27, 2020

I would imagine that the farther you go outside of your area the transport costs will start getting out of hand? But at the volume you're wanting that might be ok?

gbent · Feb 27, 2020

For price sensitive fabrications, saw cutting is to expensive and wasteful. You have to go to a rod shear and an angle shear.

huleo · Feb 27, 2020

gbent said:
For price sensitive fabrications, saw cutting is to expensive and wasteful. You have to go to a rod shear and an angle shear.

I thought the shears would distort the material near the cut? Deform it? If not, that could be an option.

Fish On · Feb 27, 2020

huleo said:
I thought the shears would distort the material near the cut? Deform it? If not, that could be an option.

Here's what a Geka Hydracrop will do with 1.5 x .1875 angle. A little distortion, but surely good enough for any weldment.

Not so sure it'll make sense to individually feet 40 footers in to get a single 30' out of them, vs gang cutting in a saw, but for shorter lengths, it's hard to beat.

DDoug · Feb 27, 2020

huleo said:
I thought the shears would distort the material near the cut? Deform it? If not, that could be an option.

There are a couple of different ways to shear angles.

I have seen the hydraulic vertical shear type, set up just for what you do.
BX8911: NVE 4"X4" (X2) ANGLE SHEAR - McKean Machinery Sales, Inc

whitney makes 1, I have seen a couple times come up for sale, they are the more popular ones.

However, the speed is slow.

I would suggest looking at vogel tool or other die set shear, and place it in a
simple flywheel (mechanical) punch press, much faster cycle time.

Runout table has sliding stop with microswitch to activate shear, put a 1/2 second
delay timer in the circuit to ensure material is fully against hard stop
before punch trips.

memphisjed · Feb 27, 2020

Ryerson would be first place to look. We do many multi tons of processing for them similar - but bigger. I know there inhouse angle lines (sheared, no distortion) will blaze thru that stock. Our angle master is 'slow' comparatively, but does big angles. They will also slot/hole punch same angles as it is already going thru the machine.
Depending on real numbers you might want to mill order the angle in nominal 31' (10' drop is going to eat whatever profit you had quick). The price for 40's and 20's per pound difference is trivial, handling 40's of 1.5 angle sucks- a lot. Up charging just for the headache and at least 2x material handling time. 40' 2x2 angles is not fun, but a lot easier than 1.5.
A steel supply house bundle cutting them, you need to add at least an inch, and then recut in house to length. but you will end up with nice bundles of 10' drop for jigs and widgets.

david n · Feb 27, 2020

Hot roll......300-400k lbs/year? Go right to the mill. Nucor is a good place to start.

huleo · Feb 28, 2020

We certainly have plenty of cuts to make but I cannot seem to communicate to people that "I want any cut charges shown as a separate line item" so I can determine if we should just cut inhouse. So far, it looks like at least one company is making a racket off of cuts.

What we basically have is several 'longs' and then hundreds of 'shorts' being approx 2' in length so I am sure we can eat up some drops BUT i am thinking this might get too complicated for explain to them how to optimize the cutting for max material utilization. You would think they would know how but I have certainly been hosed before.

Basically we want to look at it both ways. Our first order will probably be around 5k lbs. Is that even enough for a mill to consider? I would think if we can get it priced right at either 20's or 40's, we can just figure it out here. I guess I did not expect $1500 in cut charges. They must do them one at a time or charge per cut rather than hourly.

Ries · Feb 28, 2020

most mills wont dick around with less than 40,000 lb increments, and, even then, usually they want regular customers.
for 5000lbs, I doubt nucor will deal, but they could give you advice as to who, locally, would be good.

I would agree about the 40s- a big pain for everybody all down the line, and, most likely, they will get pretty banged up by the time you get em.
Do you have angle rolls to straighten em after you receive?
Because they wont be straight...

david n · Feb 28, 2020

I'm sure Nucor would buck ya on small poundage......................my brother's company orders direct from them all of the time................just need a full load.............40 to 50k lbs. Dunno..............worth a shot. If the quantity is up there, they might cut you your 30 +/- footers? You do the rest in house.....................

As for locals chargin more for the 40's than the 20's...................I'll tell you 40 foot material is a pain to deal with iff'n it's not what you are set up for.

atex57 · Feb 28, 2020

I would take a piece of the the material you want cut to a dealer for iron workers and check the quality of cut.

If someone else can make money cutting then you can too.

Ed.

huleo · Feb 28, 2020

Thanks guys. With all the info, I have been able to spot a good supplier for our R&D batch and talked with the mills to get full truckload pricing.

However, only question I forgot to ask the mill and maybe someone can give a general answer, Is there a qty or volume from a mill that brings better pricing, and if so, about how much are we talking? IE, does it take 1M lbs/yr to get a penny/lb reduction? Or is there substantially better savings? We are down to counting pennies but just a general question I wanted an answer to for our cost analysis.

memphisjed · Feb 29, 2020

huleo said:
Thanks guys. With all the info, I have been able to spot a good supplier for our R&D batch and talked with the mills to get full truckload pricing.

However, only question I forgot to ask the mill and maybe someone can give a general answer, Is there a qty or volume from a mill that brings better pricing, and if so, about how much are we talking? IE, does it take 1M lbs/yr to get a penny/lb reduction? Or is there substantially better savings? We are down to counting pennies but just a general question I wanted an answer to for our cost analysis.

Sometimes we save with mill pricing, but mostly it is wash on the per pound - We order from them for length and quantities available. We have trucks at a mill usually once/twice a week so not huge customer, but big enough they give the shop holiday cookies. You do save a lot when you need 30'-6" angle stock or ten w27x92 52' beams and not 60'.

DDoug · Feb 29, 2020

BTW what is the product ?

Sourcing A36 angle iron and round rod in midwest with inhouse cutting? Locals are hi

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Diamond

Similar threads