Spindle Nose?

My buddy wants to sell a Jacobs Collet chuck he has laying around and asked me for some help. Knowing that well defined tooling is generally worth more because the everybody knows what it's for, my goal is to find out what this thing goes to. Dimensions for the spindle taper match A2-3". According to ANSI 5.9 1967, the smaller short American taper does not have a drive "button" but uses a drive "screw". I am aware that A, D and B taper are the same; differences being the way they secure to the spindle. Unit is a Jacobs 96-F1 chuck. My heartburn is in how to describe it, A or B. Anyone?

That's a chuck for rubber collets. I've got one. In really good shape, maybe $100. More if it's got collets with it. I used mine on my dividing head.

BTW, don't be surprised if the thread is locked do to "meaningless title"
JR

Thanks JR. My question really didn't fit the other forum titles either. Under the description of this page, I saw "tooling" and figured I'd give it a shot. I've never seen an Ax-3", not very common.

Courier250 said:

Thanks JR. My question really didn't fit the other forum titles either. Under the description of this page, I saw "tooling" and figured I'd give it a shot. I've never seen an Ax-3", not very common.

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I am sure you are correct that there would be few customers for an "Ax-3" chuck. But it could be listed as potentially a flat back, which could be adapted to many different spindles with a simple back plate.

Larry

Thank you, Larry, that is how my buddy described it to me. When I looked at it, I suspected the tapered recess as being an ANSI standard product. I open the ANSI document and feel like it's a Where's Waldo" book. If I stare at it long enough, what I'm looking for will eventually jump out. The chuck appears to be a B type mount. The bolts that secure it go through the chuck, through the spindle and secure with a nut on the back side of the spindle flange. Never seen one of those either.

Someone tries to mount this in a standard fashion as a plain back is gonna be upset. There is no perpendicular register to locate center, it's tapered. They will either have to cut the register in the chuck, likely creating unsuitable run out and most certainly destroying the accuracy. Or they will try to cut the taper on the back plate, re-inventing the wheel from scratch; not really a task for beginners (the likely buyer that finds out later what he bought). Now I can identify the angle as 7 degrees 7.5 minutes, potentially saving the next guy oodles of his time from trial & error or indicating. As a happy customer, he might come back and buy something else.

Thru holes = A. B would have studs in spindle tooling to go into THRU HOLES in spindle flange

Courier250 said:

...Someone tries to mount this in a standard fashion as a plain back is gonna be upset. There is no perpendicular register to locate center, it's tapered. They will either have to cut the register in the chuck, likely creating unsuitable run out and most certainly destroying the accuracy. Or they will try to cut the taper on the back plate, re-inventing the wheel from scratch; not really a task for beginners (the likely buyer that finds out later what he bought). ...

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I had in mind to make the adapter plate male register undersize enough to allow about .003" play, so straight or tapered will not matter. Once on the lathe, the nine big screws can be snug enough to allow indicating in the collet taper. Then tighten the screws and make chips. Those screws aren't going to let go.

Larry

That's right Larry. You have a good eye for detail. Most of the people I run into are too poor to pay attention and don't plan that far ahead.

After reading John's post, I am back to scratchin' my head a little. The studs on a B tool have threads and go though a clearance hole in the spindle flange, which there aren't any of with this chuck. The through holes on the chuck indicate it's for an A spindle that has threaded holes in the spindle, but there is no area for the drive button/ screw. Jacobs website doesn't have any info on it. My best guess is that Jacobs intended for socket head cap screws to be used in lieu of the B studs. Either this thing is worth a mint because of it's obscurity or it's a glug and I should put it in the bass boat in case I go seining. (a glug is any object that emits a "glug" noise when thrown in a lake)

Courier250 said:

That's right Larry. You have a good eye for detail. Most of the people I run into are too poor to pay attention and don't plan that far ahead.

After reading John's post, I am back to scratchin' my head a little. The studs on a B tool have threads and go though a clearance hole in the spindle flange, which there aren't any of with this chuck. The through holes on the chuck indicate it's for an A spindle that has threaded holes in the spindle, but there is no area for the drive button/ screw. Jacobs website doesn't have any info on it. My best guess is that Jacobs intended for socket head cap screws to be used in lieu of the B studs. Either this thing is worth a mint because of it's obscurity or it's a glug and I should put it in the bass boat in case I go seining. (a glug is any object that emits a "glug" noise when thrown in a lake)

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I could probably fit it to the nose of my Emco Maximat 11 which is basically B1-3 (through holes and threaded holes) but without the collet set, it's pretty worthless. Now if it was a P-B chuck that took the EC collets, different matter. Got a full set of those for the Chipmaster's D1-3 collet chuck.

PDW

PDW said:

I could probably fit it to the nose of my Emco Maximat 11 which is basically B1-3 (through holes and threaded holes) but without the collet set, it's pretty worthless. Now if it was a P-B chuck that took the EC collets, different matter. Got a full set of those for the Chipmaster's D1-3 collet chuck.

PDW

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Jacobs 900 series Rubberflex collet sets are pretty easy to find. I have some spares I would sell.

Larry

L Vanice said:

Jacobs 900 series Rubberflex collet sets are pretty easy to find. I have some spares I would sell.

Larry

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Thanks - postage would probably be a killer as I'm in Australia. See what the OP comes back with - I expect he's hoping it's worth far more than indicated here.

I've got a really nice P-B EC chuck but it's got an integral L-00 mount and so far I simply can't bring myself to butcher it and fit it to the Emco. I bought a cheap ER40 collet chuck on a plain back instead (that I still haven't got around to fitting - easier to use the Chipmaster until I get a round tuit).

PDW

Courier250 said:

That's right Larry. You have a good eye for detail. Most of the people I run into are too poor to pay attention and don't plan that far ahead.

After reading John's post, I am back to scratchin' my head a little. The studs on a B tool have threads and go though a clearance hole in the spindle flange, which there aren't any of with this chuck. The through holes on the chuck indicate it's for an A spindle that has threaded holes in the spindle, but there is no area for the drive button/ screw. Jacobs website doesn't have any info on it. My best guess is that Jacobs intended for socket head cap screws to be used in lieu of the B studs. Either this thing is worth a mint because of it's obscurity or it's a glug and I should put it in the bass boat in case I go seining. (a glug is any object that emits a "glug" noise when thrown in a lake)

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I don't THINK it is for the Hardinge taper, but Jacobs 9XX were available for those.

One other thing you might research. The proprietary Cazeneuve HBX spindle taper. ladner.fr has the dimensions, but IIRC, NOT the taper angle. 1.7 degrees?

My own Rubberflex chuck for it has the LARGE backing plate that picks-up on Cazeneuve's idea of "quick change". Three stout conical wedging tip screws that go into sockets on radials from the outer edge.

However.. the Cazeneuve spindle nose is dual-use. One can EITHER use those radial 3 screws ELSE through-bolts, parallel to the spindle axis, "A" family style.

One give-way is that the taper is longer but waaaay shallower as to angle than A / D1 series, yet much shorter than L series or Hardinge. There were about 30,000 or 40,000 of those lathes made, four factories, France, Japan, Spain, Brazil, so they are not as rare as some thinkle peep they are. My guess is they are still earning their keep rather than hitting the used market all that often.



AFAIK, the castings and spindle are still in-use on the current-production "Optica" semi-CNC replacement, too.