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SS heat treat foil

craigsery

Plastic
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Plymouth, MN
We harden our A2 tool steel by wrapping it in .002 thick stainless steel foil. Right now we use a scissors to cut the foil to the size we need, however the foil is like a knife and I'm constantly slicing my fingers on it. At my last job we had a cutter that the cutting head slid back and forth on 2 rails and you could cut the foil in one swipe. I can't seem to find one anywhere. Anyone know of where I can find one?
 
While we're on the topic of heat treat foil, I'm about to partake in my first experience with the stuff. I've got a roll of it, with the "sealing" tool, but no direction as to folding it for a seal.

Do I just fold it over a couple of times and run the roller over it? Any hints, tips, or tricks?

Thanks,
-Keith
 
Keith,

I usually unroll it and lay the part down on the edge of the foil. I roll the part completely over 2 full revolutions and cut the foil there, that way I have two layers of foil over the part. Just wrap the part up and on the ends just flatten them in a vise and fold them over a couple times. It's critical that you have an airtight wrap, be careful not to tear the foil. The stuff is razor sharp, you won't even feel the cut, just see blood so be careful. What material are you heat treating?
 
Kieth.

Great stuff, ss heat treatment foil. I do a lot of small thin parts and make a purse for each part. Take a piece of foil of appropriate size, fold it in two and then do a double fold on each of he edges. make sure that each fold is well rolled down. It is also very easy for a sharp corner on a part to pierce the packet so take some care here. As most of my parts are flat I do not remove them from the packet to quench - just a very quick transfer from furnace to quench between two flat plates in a machine vice. This works well for a variety of steel from high carbon to air hardening stainless.

Large parts must be removed from the packet for quench. It is handy to have some sort of wire handle attached to the part so that it can be easily picked up when the foil packet is removed. Small , odd shaped high carbon parts are a real challenge as it is really difficult to remove them from the packet for quench before the temp falls below critical. I fany one has worked out a solution for this it would be good to hear of it.

OW
 
First, take the "sealer" and throw it away, they are usually some cheap plastic part. Wrap it up and put in a cold oven. Turn the oven on. Hopefully it's programmable. Once the temp gets to 1200 F hold it there for 10-15 min to get the molecules ready, then take it up to 1750 F for an hour per inch of thickness, if it's under an inch 45 min total is fine. Once it's done, take the part out of the oven and set on a rack or something that will allow air to flow all around it, don't set it on a metal table. Some people in your last post were saying to remove it from the foil, I never do, I think it cools down too fast, which may warp the piece. Once I can comfortably hold it in my hand for a few seconds, it's cooled down enough (about 150 F) and I put it back in the oven. For a punch and die, I'm guessing you want it 56-60 RC? The oven at 700 F would give you about 56, if you want it harder set the oven lower, I wouldn't go below 400 F. Leave it in the foil, in the oven for 2 hrs per inch of thickness, less than one inch, still leave it at 2 hrs. Now when you take it out, you can remove the foil, unless you want a second temper to further remove stresses. If you want a second temper leave the part in foil and Let the part cool and Set the oven 25 F less than the first temper and leave it in at the same time
 
Yes, ovens are progammable, but I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to program it. Time to look up the manual for it... Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm working with thin A2 -a quarter inch thick, probably roughly an inch square. Still doing a little design on it.

'Bout to bust my heat treating "cherry" :D always looking forward to new things to learn.

Wish me luck.

Edit: an hour per inch of thickness. I've got a quarter inch, so 15 minutes? Do the ovens "move" that fast? These are inert atmosphere ovens, with (I believe) inconel liners. I'm doubting that the control and oven will follow that profile. I do have access to smaller muffle furnaces, but no programmable on those. Also, I've got at least 3 or four furnaces capable of the temps and size I need, so I can set multiple furnaces to different temps.
 
If the oven is inert atmosphere you don't need to wrap the parts in the foil. the oven starts from cold,but will not reach temperature for quite a while. it is after the oven reaches full hardening heat that the hardening time can begin.
 
Craig; I just use old scissors and be careful,though it is easy to get a cut. Maybe an old office type paper cutter would do the job. The cutter would last quite a while,then you could grind the blade. Trickier part would be re grinding the flat edge that the knife comes down against. I do not see how you are getting an airtight seal by double wrapping the part. How are you crimping the foil together with the double wrap?
 
Keith,You fold the stainless like this; These dimension are ONLY to give an idea what i am describing. Suppose you bring both top and bottom edges of the foil flush with each other,then,fold the 2 of them over together for 1/2". I fold foil using the metal jaw vise with smooth jaws. I put the foil edge down into the vise jaws to the depth I am folding.bend the foil 90* then lightly hammer the folded edge down against the vise jaw. take the foil out,and bend the fold the rest of the way to fully flat. put the folded edge back in the vise and squeeze the edge tightly together. To lock the fold,keep the edge from slipping apart,and place the fold,say,1/4" deep into the jaws. Bend to 90* take it out and hammer the fold down flat gently. You don't want to break or damage the foil.Then,the first edge is locked together,and the envelope becomes easier to manage. Do the other edges the same. For folds longer than the vise jaws,just piece your way along. When there is one end left to fold,drop in a piece of brown paper bag.For a pocket knife blade,a piece about as big as a postage stamp will do. this burns out the air in the foil. DO NOT over do the size of the paper,or it will rupture the foil bag when it burns,and ruin the part inside. Maybe there is a better way to do this. that's just the way I do it. Try to press the bag of foil against the part as you fold,to exclude as much air as possible. you have to make the very first fold with this in mind.
 
keith,

regarding time, I don't think you could leave it in there too long during the heating stage, other than it being a waste of time and electricity. leaving it at temp longer just assures that the whole piece got up to the temperature, instead of just the outside. as to the tempering, again, I think the longer end of the spectrum might actually be better, as the molecules in the steel have more of a chance to "relax". There are probably exponential diminishing rates of benefit from longer tempering times, but I am just speculating here. I'm sure there are ideal times to get the most bang for your buck, and one could test all of this to get maximum productivity, but your part is not a production run, so I wouldn't worry about leaving it too long. the PID controller will keep it from getting any hotter than you want, which for tempering is way more important than leaving it too long at a constant temperature.

I have a bunch of cast iron chips if you need something to put in the bag to remove the air. I assume the bag is for when you quench to keep oxides from forming on the part? with a part this small, there is no reason not to quench in the bag. If you are going to take it out of the bag to quench, might as well leave it all together since you have an inert atmosphere oven. It might save some cut finger tips.

jon

p.s. call me when you do this stuff, I want to come by and see how this comes out.
 
Just found this thread, after fumbling my first use of stainless foil. The parts are small in oil hardening steel (1/4 x 1/4 x 3").

It didn't prove practical or easy to remove items from foil before quenching - at least without loosing temperature.

As the foil won't be in firm contact over all the surface of the part, I was concerned as to how well it might harden. Is any compensation desirable (temperature etc) when quenching with component left wrapped in foil?

Thanks, Brian

Making tiny louver tooling.
Hardening small items wrapped in stainless foil.jpgLouvred door panel_2709a.jpg
 
The classic dodge for hardening small parts is to heat them in a bit of black iron pipe (no zinc fumes) with a scrap of paper (to scavenge the oxygen), and when ready pull the iron plug out of the end and dump the contents into the oil or water.
 
Please note that oil or water quenching is for oil- or water-hardening steels, while air quenching is for air-hardening steels like the A2 originally discussed at the top of this thread.

I generally don't have any trouble leaving A2 parts in the SS envelope during the (air) quench. I put the envelopes on a wire rack for quenching/cooling. In fact, for stuff that's inconveniently small to be messing with, I will sometimes put the still-sealed envelopes in the tempering oven, once the contents gets down to about 150F.

You may need to press the SS envelope against the part to determine the part temperature more accurately. Parts of the envelope that are not in contact with the part may be much cooler than the part.
 
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