Stanley tools Heliciols are GARBAGE!!! - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    I have about 15 sizes of Helicoils, some bought as far back as the mid 70s. I also have some Stanley branded inserts I got about a month ago. I can't tell the difference, they work exactly the same. I would say they come out the Stanley door of the Helicoil factory. The OP points his finger at the Stanley product, I would remind him that when you are pointing your finger there are 3 pointing back at you.
    LOL! I've also found that the finger pointing at you often has some secrets hidden under the fingernail.

  2. #22
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    What he said
    Quote Originally Posted by hlr270 View Post
    DO Not USE HELICIOlL from Stanley tools you have been warned. I have been using Helicoil thread repair systems for decades and just destroyed a camshaft cap with Stanley tools made in CHINA junk. Half way in the SS wire tore out the fresh threads and yes I did use a lubricant as the cap is cast aluminum and if you know anything about motorcycles the caps are NOT interchangeable or replaceable.
    What he really meant
    Quote Originally Posted by hlr270 View Post
    I installed it wrong and destroyed the part, I'm not sure how it happened I may not know what I'm doing but I'm gonna complain anyway

  3. #23
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    Sympathetic bunch - aren't we?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I've generally had good luck with helical inserts, over multiple brands and materials. I think one thing that helps is I use a tiny bit of oil on the insert before it goes into the installation tool, then wind out a about two turns of the insert before bearing down on the actual part.

    The exposed insert gives me an easier time centering on the tapped hole, then observing how the first few winds perform. If everything looks/feels good, I just wind down to the stop.

    The extra stickout also allows me to check that the tiny drive pawl on the install tool is properly nestled into the bend of the insert tang. I think this area may be a problem for some insertions, if the tool isn't oriented correctly it can displace or break the drive tang prematurely.

    Another (more expensive) option is to use the tangless inserts, which saves breaking off the little buggers but requires much more expensive insertion tools. But they are a lot easier to remove if you have an issue, using the (expensive) removal tool. I used a bunch of 2-56 tangless back when they were pretty new on some aerospace parts and was happy with the results.
    +1 on oiling the insert

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Dunno about Stanley helicoils, ……...but I've been helicoiling for well over 40 years and STILL regard it more a black art than a science.
    Yeah, I sorta feel the same way. I've used a lot of helicoils over the years but to me they've always been a
    last resort type of repair. I've installed lots and had lots that seemed to work fine but I've never really been
    comfortable with them...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    It's like buying a Harbor Freight product, then bitching. We all know the outcome, and have known the outcome for some time.
    Grabbed a $12 heat gun from them a while back, maaan, it is the bee's knees ! If you hate stripping paint, this is the way to go. I love that thing.

    Grabbed a set of combination wrenches at the same time for a "throw in the trunk" emergency set, they look fine and work fine.

    It's stylish to sneer at Harbor Freight 'cuz they used to be total crap but these days, they have some low-priced reasonable stuff. (And I replaced my Gorton with a 2B DeVlieg, so I have an idea what quality is. But you don't need to spend the big bucks on everything.)

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Sympathetic bunch - aren't we?
    That made me laugh, i was just thinking it's a tough crowd today.

  9. #28
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    LOL

    I worked at a place that made special machines, 99% of the parts were 6061. EVERY tapped hole got a helicoil. We had the Helicoil installation tolls, after you've done a few hundred or so you'd think you'd get it down pat.

    Nope, I bet every 20-50 or so installations I'd f' it up, pull the helicoil out, run the tap down the hole, and re-install a new insert. I came to the conclusion, that sometimes there was no ryme or reason why the occasional helicoil wouldn't thread in correctly.

    And then there's the issue of occasionally the tang wouldn't break off reliably.

    The OP should realise it's likely him and not Stanley that's the issue.

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  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    The guy has been a member for 11 years and has 5 posts. I'm not going to look, but I would guess the other 4 are similar to this one. . .
    Well, since it's a one-click effort and only 5 to look at I'll do it for you:
    The previous posts were all good, positive etc.

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  13. #30
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    Milland mentions "tangless" wound-wire inserts, which I've found to be an orders-of-magnitude improvement on the tang-type . . . the tangless inserts can be installed either-end-first and, somewhat self-evidently, don't have tangs to break off and account for.

    Yes, the installation and removal tools are substantially more expensive than those for the conventional tang-type insert, but the price of finding and removing a misplaced tang can outweigh the tool-price premium by a factor of 100 or more when building FOD-sensitive hardware. For ordinary work, it takes longer to amortize the added tool cost, but I'd guess the break-even point is under 1,000 manual installations.

    IIRC, the tangless insert was developed in Japan by Kato in the early 1980s. Helicoil spent decades arguing that the tangless inserts did not comply with the US Federal specifications for wound-wire inserts, but quit making that claim once they started selling tangless inserts themselves.

    As an aside, back in the bad old days it was standard practice to apply a bit of zinc chromate primer to aluminum or magnesium substrates immediately before installing stainless wound-wire inserts.

  14. #31
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    I guess I'd bitch too, if I fucked up the original part, and then fucked up the repair. But, I work in play-doh.

  15. #32
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    Tangless... the only way to go. Kato now offers tangless #0-80 & M2 inserts. We use a boatload of #0, #2, #4 & #6 tangless STI's in our machined housings. Sometimes they can be finicky to install.

    The World's Smallest Tangless Insert 0-80 for Unified & M2 for Metric size

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  17. #33
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    Totally agree. Bought a kit and the coils break threading into tapped hole.
    Used their included tap. Must be very very low quality control.

  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    I don't know the origin of the helicoils that we use,but we've installed tens of thousands over the last few years without issue.
    Same for me. I worked in a shop that installed 7/16-14 helicoils by the pallet load. I don't recall any issues. We form tapped the holes and used loctite. They were installed with an pneumatic driver.

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    The taps that I've seen come in a helicoil kit are not ground thread. They cut as good as a hardware store tap, which is saying kind of shitty. A bad thread form could easily damage the helicoil. So inspect the tap before blaming the helicoil.

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  21. #36
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    The kits also come with the crappy install tool. Buy the good tools that compress the helicoil prior to installation. Look at the kit (McMaster part 91732A520) and compare the included install tool to the good one (90261A155). Yes, the good tools are expensive, but the cheap tools are crap.

    And buy a decent tap. HSS. Spiral point for a through hole, spiral flute for a blind hole. Good taps are cheap (in small sizes) and hand taps aren't worth the hassle.

  22. #37
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    Not sure on specific heli-coil brand quality. We only go that route if we're trying to do a quick fix, or in some cases where we want a coil type insert in an aluminum plate for wear resistance for example. Half the time, the thread size isn't readily available without waiting a day or two on shipping, so...

    9 times out of 10, our first stop for thread repair is the cheapo method to lock a piece of bigger low carbon all-thread (or other similar material of threaded rod) and then re-drill/tap to the size and location we want. It's a few extra steps but from my experience it's much more forgiving if something goes wrong and if the original hole was wallered out to begin with, your insert might not end up squarely in place, but that's corrected when you re-drill the new hole.

    It's frustrating the level of "quality" that passes in tools today, but I'm in agreement with the operator error crowd. Not to knock the OP, but anything involving hand twisted threads really can be a pain if you don't hold your tongue just right. Regardless of how high or low quality of tools you have, you have to be able to feel when a thread is starting to go wrong and get out of there before it does. Even cheapo hardware store taps have been known to make a functional thread, but you don't drive them in the same as a good tap. I've had a couple heli-coil's go south on me and usually you can feel that it's getting too tight or crunchy same as a bad tap. It's in that split second where you think "Na, it'll make it" that a thread tears out or breaks a tap.

  23. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Dunno about Stanley helicoils, ……...but I've been helicoiling for well over 40 years and STILL regard it more a black art than a science.

    It really can be difficult and you hope for a good result with any brand of Helicoil.

  24. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Garner View Post
    It's been close to thirty years since Black and Decker bought Emhart (which owned Helicoil), and Stanley bought Black and Decker -- and thus Helicoil -- ten years ago.
    Learn something new every day........

    I never knew this. I grew up in New Britain, CT - home to Emhart and Stanley and I never knew that Emhart owned Heli-Coil or that Stanley now owns them!


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