Steering box worm shaft and nut help
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  1. #1
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    Default Steering box worm shaft and nut help

    Looking for general ideas/info on how these parts might have been made, and possibly how they could be reproduced on manual machines.

    img_20191120_114617.jpg img_20191120_114655.jpg img_20191120_114811.jpg

    Im guessing the shaft would have been rough turned, hardened then ground to finish. Not sure on the nut

    Cheers
    D

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    The shafts were thread milled then HT and ground - but essentially the same process as turning.

    Like you I have no idea about the nut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    The shafts were thread milled then HT and ground - but essentially the same process as turning.

    Like you I have no idea about the nut.
    Oh he is the moderator on the metrology forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Oh he is the moderator on the metrology forum.
    That's another computer screen you can clean the tea off

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    I'm curious as to what the box came off of.
    I have had hundreds of power boxes and a handful of manual boxes apart. Never saw a sector/piston/nut that small before. Looks like it only has half a loop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderboyjk View Post
    I'm curious as to what the box came off of.
    I have had hundreds of power boxes and a handful of manual boxes apart. Never saw a sector/piston/nut that small before. Looks like it only has half a loop.
    Its from a Sunbeam Alpine. I think the steering box was common to quite few other cars from that era tho.
    The nut sits atop the worm, a fork sits on top of that and held down by a spring. Only the top half of the nut engages the worm, the bottom half is a tube to recirculate the balls. Ive got most of the box so will post more pics when I get a mo.

    Cheers
    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Oh he is the moderator on the metrology forum.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    Its from a Sunbeam Alpine. I think the steering box was common to quite few other cars from that era tho.
    The nut sits atop the worm, a fork sits on top of that and held down by a spring. Only the top half of the nut engages the worm, the bottom half is a tube to recirculate the balls. Ive got most of the box so will post more pics when I get a mo.

    Cheers
    D
    Having only 1/2 of a loop in contact with the worm looks like there would only be 6 or so balls in contact at any time. Just seems sketchy to me. Although that might have been a way to negate the need for tight tolerancing.

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    Burman F type half nut ......Burman also made a F type full nut used in trucks......as we all know ,Burmans also made motor bike gearboxes......S Burman and Sons,Wychall Lane ,Birmingham the factory is still there ,now owned by a laminated glass multinational.

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    Thank you John I wondered if it was a Burman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderboyjk View Post
    Having only 1/2 of a loop in contact with the worm looks like there would only be 6 or so balls in contact at any time. Just seems sketchy to me. Although that might have been a way to negate the need for tight tolerancing.
    My buddy also mentioned it helps take the shock out of the steering is you hit a pothole etc. Not sure how true that is but makes sense.

    Cheers
    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    That's another computer screen you can clean the tea off
    Coffee as well..

    ISTR what was to become Saginaw Gear Division of General Motors implemented the early patents on recirculating ball systems in mass production, 1930's?

    Steering was only one application. As with Getrag (not recirculating ball), same goods are fitted to "many" uses, old 1950's fords and newer 1970's BMW's using much the same Getrag boxes.

    Rather than make one, better to just find one off some other application. ELSE order a length of the ready-made screw and the balls & nuts to match.

    See also CNC ballscrews..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    My buddy also mentioned it helps take the shock out of the steering is you hit a pothole etc. Not sure how true that is but makes sense.

    Cheers
    D
    Per an Uncle long deceased, they were HATED by farmers when first applied to tractors. "That g-damned ball-feed contraption" CAN have nearly 100% feedback, so the rough ground was hard on the guy steering, pre-power-steering era.

    Ag equipment HAD made use of worm and sector steering for the most part, which can be engineered for NO discernible kick-back or "just enough" for useful feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Coffee as well..

    ISTR what was to become Saginaw Gear Division of General Motors implemented the early patents on recirculating ball systems in mass production, 1930's?

    Steering was only one application. As with Getrag (not recirculating ball), same goods are fitted to "many" uses, old 1950's fords and newer 1970's BMW's using much the same Getrag boxes.

    Rather than make one, better to just find one off some other application. ELSE order a length of the ready-made screw and the balls & nuts to match.

    See also CNC ballscrews..
    You might have something there Bill. I found this on screw stock to finished item, im guessing the size required wont be off shelf so depends on cost. The Induction heater, I want one!

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    Some more on helical milling/grinding, all new to me.



    Core competences in the production of worm gears

    Heres a pic of a worm my buddy got made for a classic taxi. It was milled then hardened but not ground. Originally the worm had the same round thread form. It worked fine after a short break in period.
    img_20191115_144126.jpg

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    If I was gonna have a go:-

    i) How hard does this thing really need to be? Its seems the case hardening breaking down is the problem.
    ii) What material? EN24T/19T? EN8? It needs to be welded to a column so would be nice to keep that bit simple.
    iii) What questions do I not know to ask, liability aside
    Last edited by Demon73; 11-22-2019 at 12:36 PM.


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