Stressed operator, how long do setups take? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    You really shouldn't be making career decisions based on what some shit hole company wants you to do. If you want to work with Mastercam go learn it, if they don't want to put you in that position or pay you what it's worth move on. I don't know what your area looks like maybe you live in BFE and it's the only shop in 100 miles, but realistically every shop in the country is light on talent so there's lots of opportunities out there.

    That being said learning how to use the CAM software doesn't absolve you from your duty to continue learning about manufacturing processes. A guy that knows the software but isn't an expert in machining practices is more useless than the other way around, I never teach someone about CAM that isn't already proficient in G code. So don't look at this as an easy way out.

    As far as being shy, that's something I dealt with through the first 20 years or so of my life. You have to realize that opportunities don't come without asking for them. You have to do things to get out of your comfort zone. It gets easier as you go.

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  3. #42
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    I'm not sure how much I can add here, except one thing stuck in my eye so maybe I'll touch on that alone? The guy "teaching" you was pulling stuff out of his head and word of mouthing that at you.

    That's the Word of Mouth / Tribal Knowledge approach. And while the spoken word is part of "Training", if that's the SOP overall for training of people it's going to be (in my experience) very weak. He's retained that knowledge reliably due to endless REPETITION over 20 years. Repetition is one of the cornerstones of Teaching.

    Consider starting a notebook, and be serious about it. The goal: To collect enough Tribal Knowledge to put that into an actual series of Training "Cards" or slides, or even a documented Training Program. On the one hand we don't want to invoke more "paper" than is necessary when we need to get work done, but the other extreme is, IMO, just as bad: Word of mouth by the most experienced people who lay the onus of taking notes and learning too much on the Trainee. So, adapt and try to fill that hole over time.

    Another way to put it: It is my opinion that a Company forfeits the right to complain about Trainees not being prepared with pen and paper when the company doesn't demonstrate the same. No "pen and paper", no prep, no training write ups, etc. If the Trainer can't be bothered to do what they ask of the Trainee, things are already out of whack.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    You really shouldn't be making career decisions based on what some shit hole company wants you to do. If you want to work with Mastercam go learn it, if they don't want to put you in that position or pay you what it's worth move on. I don't know what your area looks like maybe you live in BFE and it's the only shop in 100 miles, but realistically every shop in the country is light on talent so there's lots of opportunities out there.

    That being said learning how to use the CAM software doesn't absolve you from your duty to continue learning about manufacturing processes. A guy that knows the software but isn't an expert in machining practices is more useless than the other way around, I never teach someone about CAM that isn't already proficient in G code. So don't look at this as an easy way out.

    As far as being shy, that's something I dealt with through the first 20 years or so of my life. You have to realize that opportunities don't come without asking for them. You have to do things to get out of your comfort zone. It gets easier as you go.

    Huh? I didn't know crap about G code when I started programming. I learned it while learning to CAM program... to each their own I guess.... For the record, been programming for 15 years now.... (of course I can read G code now, but there was a time I couldn't)

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Huh? I didn't know crap about G code when I started programming. I learned it while learning to CAM program... to each their own I guess.... For the record, been programming for 15 years now.... (of course I can read G code now, but there was a time I couldn't)
    Many ways to skin a cat, I suppose I have a "I had to learn the hard way so will you" attitude. I realize it is very common now days for people to be taught CAM right away while breezing over if not skipping over G code. However the place I started at had no CAM system, it was years before I even got autoCAD on the shop floor. This left me learning to program while having to trig angles and figure I,J,K with nothing more than a scientific calculator. I am only 30 but I had some old school guys to work with when I started and have a large appetite for machine tool history. In my experience if I start a guy on CAM they have no interest in going back and learning about stuff before that, and I feel that knowing where we came from and how the trade got to where it is today is a benefit to everyone involved.

    I will admit I am a compulsive bookworm about anything machine tool related and it irks me when I try to train people that don't share my passion and drive.

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Huh? I didn't know crap about G code when I started programming. I learned it while learning to CAM program... to each their own I guess.... For the record, been programming for 15 years now.... (of course I can read G code now, but there was a time I couldn't)
    Same. Had to learn to read and understand G code while also programming and running the parts.

    If I had had to fingerpunch code to make stuff, I still would be scratching my ass and hating my life, working on the first part.

    Not that I'm a slow learner, but I need both sets of fingers for counting on, and I can only do math until my lips get tired counting along...

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