Strong hold equipment auctions, something seems odd

dkmc · May 18, 2021

These "Strong hold" auctions seem odd, lots of new or nearly new equipment for sale. Various business names, but they seem to go on on a regular basis. Who buys a plant's worth of new equipment, hardly uses it, then has an auction? This one is assets of "Eagle manufacturing", everything's "Mint" or "Unused". They must have not done their homework on their business plan....ha. And it looks like they over bought on forklifts! Probably a conglomerate of dealers using the "Auction" ploy to excite possible buyers.

Industrial Machine Trader

Stronghold Equipment | Auction of Eagle Manufacturing – MINT Forklifts, Mfg, Cabinets, Fab Equipment, Hoists & More lots

DDoug · May 18, 2021

Looks like it's a consignment auction.

Awfull lot of "Bernardo" imported machines, ranging from press brakes, shears, a surface grinder, and a 3-in-1 machine.

bsg · May 18, 2021

This has been brought up before......everything gets a bid, house bids it up until they reach their sale price?

I have bought items from them in the past before I knew that sellers can bid up their items!

I have not bought anything in years from them because of this scenario.....maybe the seller will pop in here?

One other thing I should mention, they were very nice to deal with and everything was as described......

Kevin

neilho · May 18, 2021

bsg said:
... before I knew that sellers can bid up their items!...

Kevin

Illegal as all hell in every state, but still happens. Just one more reason to be careful.

neilho · May 18, 2021

Another hint that something may be off. Eagle Mfg is in Colchester, CT. Auction locations (multiple) are not.

richard newman · May 18, 2021

Actually, there are two locations - Buffalo NY and Stoney Creek, Ontario, just across the border.

Here is a previous thread with some info:

Ironworker... Does anyone recognise this brand ??? Bernardo Macchina

What really looks weird to me are the lots with a pair of Bessey hand clamps in an industrial auction.

AJ H · May 18, 2021

Look at this regularly since they are local. Seem to be part fork truck refurbisher/flipper, part import machine/tooling dealer. We bought 3 electric fork trucks from them about 6 months ago and have been happy with the purchase.

boslab · May 18, 2021

Oddly I went to see a Bernardo wood lathe with copy dodah, made in Austria was on it, too short but searching they sell a lot of machines over here, I’m suspicious they are rebadged destigmatised oriental offerings, seem familiar
Mark

bsg · May 19, 2021

richard newman said:
Actually, there are two locations - Buffalo NY and Stoney Creek, Ontario, just across the border.

Here is a previous thread with some info:

Ironworker... Does anyone recognise this brand ??? Bernardo Macchina

What really looks weird to me are the lots with a pair of Bessey hand clamps in an industrial auction.

That's one of the reasons I quit bidding on their auctions.....I kept getting outbid on the same clamps and yet they keep showing up for auction time after time? Now unless they bought a container full or have hundreds of them in stock.....I will hang on to my money?

AJ H said:
Look at this regularly since they are local. Seem to be part fork truck refurbisher/flipper, part import machine/tooling dealer. We bought 3 electric fork trucks from them about 6 months ago and have been happy with the purchase.

I was happy with everything I bought from them as well and they were great to deal with, with that being said, I will not bid on any of their auctions anymore....

Kevin

Mebfab · May 19, 2021

neilho said:
Illegal as all hell in every state, but still happens. Just one more reason to be careful.

Its not illegal. Auctioneer acts as agent of seller. Totally legal for them to bid up. Call the auction commissioner. I have called nc, he said Totally ok. Now if we as buyers got together and decided who bid on what to keep price down... thats bid rigging and illegal.

woodchuckNJ · May 19, 2021

bsg said:
This has been brought up before......everything gets a bid, house bids it up until they reach their sale price?

I have bought items from them in the past before I knew that sellers can bid up their items!

I have not bought anything in years from them because of this scenario.....maybe the seller will pop in here?

One other thing I should mention, they were very nice to deal with and everything was as described......

Kevin

that's just wrong. the seller should not be able to bid.
it's ok to have a reserve.. but sketchy to bid against a buyer.

bsg · May 19, 2021

woodchuckNJ said:
that's just wrong. the seller should not be able to bid.
it's ok to have a reserve.. but sketchy to bid against a buyer.

Another auction scenario that happens all the time, machinery dealer buys a shop and has an auctioneer hold the auction, bids on
the items he wants to protect and gets rid of everything thing else!

This was done long before internet bidding and is still going on, nothing illegal about it?

Kevin

CarbideBob · May 19, 2021

bsg said:
Another auction scenario that happens all the time, machinery dealer buys a shop and has an auctioneer hold the auction, bids on
the items he wants to protect and gets rid of everything thing else!

This was done long before internet bidding and is still going on, nothing illegal about it?

Kevin

Often the seller is actually the bank holding the note and the company name goes bankrupt.
Then the original owner is free to buy back anything he/she wants at 10 cents on the dollar or less and start over new.
Bob

john.k · May 19, 2021

Mebfab mentions an important fact......a chattel auctioneer acts as agent for the seller,and unless legislation says otherwise owes no duty to the buyer....if the auctioneer is the owner of the goods sold,does he have the right to charge a buyers premium?......I sued an auctioneer over this when the premiums first began to spread like wildfire .....I won,and the state govt changed the law to allow auctioneers to charge whatever premiums they like.....Real estate auctions have more legislative controll ,as a lot more voter interest centres on house sales.

Spud · May 19, 2021

dkmc said:
These "Strong hold" auctions seem odd, lots of new or nearly new equipment for sale. Various business names, but they seem to go on on a regular basis. Who buys a plant's worth of new equipment, hardly uses it, then has an auction? This one is assets of "Eagle manufacturing", everything's "Mint" or "Unused". They must have not done their homework on their business plan....ha. And it looks like they over bought on forklifts! Probably a conglomerate of dealers using the "Auction" ploy to excite possible buyers.

Industrial Machine Trader

Stronghold Equipment | Auction of Eagle Manufacturing – MINT Forklifts, Mfg, Cabinets, Fab Equipment, Hoists & More lots

The following is just my hunch, which could be very wrong.

Stronghold comes across as an equipment dealer, often selling brand new import (China or Taiwan or Turkey) sourced equipment and selling it using the auction format.

Often times their auctions claim to be equipment from a specific company, but a few months ago I did a google search of the company names and they don't actually appear to exist. So my hunch is that they are just making it all up, to make buyers think they are actually buying unused or slightly used equipment that was purchased new by a legitimate manufacturing concern. I presume buyers think they are getting a deal if the equipment is being sold by the end-user rather than a dealer.

The company names Stronghold claims to be disposing the assets of all have names that typically follow a three word format, which comes across as quite synthetic, as if someone just sits around and generates a whole bunch of company names.

Are there tax benefits for selling via auction rather than as a new equipment dealer? As they are selling via bidspotter, where most everything is as-is, do they escape warranty obligations? Do you think the traditional used & new equipment dealers in that Ontario / NY area are getting shafted ?

john.k · May 20, 2021

In general if you buy at auction the goods are described "as is where is,with all faults if any"......auction is an important commercial tool for an economy,enabling liquidations of goods at an available value,and drawing a line under the transaction.....sometimes at an auction ,a lot will be noted to be "with full manufacturers warranty transferrable to the buyer"....but that is the extent of warranty.......Depending on legislation,auction sale would negate any Consumer Legislation,such as cooling off period,right of return of goods for a full refund,fit for purpose,of acceptable marchantable standard,compliance with electric supply rules,compliance with state machinery safety rules .etc......so the auction seller saves a fair bit of money ,and has the important assurance he wont be getting back a boatload of poor quality machines that break first time used.

bryan_machine · May 20, 2021

I once saw or read that if a bank is selling off "real estate owned" (forclosed property) they'll generally put in a kind of reserve bid equal to what was owed. (Or something like that.) The point being that allowing the property to sell for less than is owed on it can raise questions about whether the sale was fair to party forclosed on. (These details can't be right, what if somebody owed $100K on a property only worth $10K??? But there was some rule of like that - basically the foreclosing bank had to "show" they were arranging a fair auction.)

Likewise, if the real owner of some shop has gone bankrupt, the creditors have some rights, and may be pressing hard, for maximum recovery from the auction - the folks administering that will both be trying to dispose of inventory, but also, to keep the creditors from going nuclear.

bsg · May 20, 2021

CarbideBob said:
Often the seller is actually the bank holding the note and the company name goes bankrupt.
Then the original owner is free to buy back anything he/she wants at 10 cents on the dollar or less and start over new.
Bob

Normally if a business is being sold because of debt or bankruptcy, it will be noted in the auction listing?

I'm talking about local machinery dealers, buying shops from the owners, then selling everything at auction. They run the bid up on the more valuable items to protect them.......it's not that you cannot outbid them, they will just drive the bid up until it gets to the price as if it was on their floor!

I have attended several of these so called auctions in the past, normally the word gets around, so and so owns the place, then you know there's no deals to be had on the bigger ticket items!

Kevin

henrya · May 20, 2021

Some of the things mentioned here might fall under various state consumer protection laws. Such things as selling something for other than what it is, selling something claiming its comes from some other source than claimed, going out of business sales when they are not. Keep this in mind if you have trouble with these sellers. Otherwise it seems smart to stay away if you have serious doubts.

bsg · May 20, 2021

henrya said:
Some of the things mentioned here might fall under various state consumer protection laws. Such things as selling something for other than what it is, selling something claiming its comes from some other source than claimed, going out of business sales when they are not. Keep this in mind if you have trouble with these sellers. Otherwise it seems smart to stay away if you have serious doubts.

That maybe true, but very hard to prove.....and the cost of pursuing it legally is a non starter!

Kevin

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