Subject matter expert in vertical mill machines needed, will pay for phone call

Jeffrey Caldwell · May 22, 2019

Odd title I know. Long story short I'm going to a warehouse that's being liquidated tomorrow, old fab shop. Theres a couple lathes including a monarch apparently, and a bunch of other stuff. Theres an unknown vertical mill, which I have posted the one and only picture of. They have until the beginning of next week to clear it out, and sounds like they are ready to take any offer other than scrap. The guy on the phone (from the liquidation company in grand rapids) sounded like he was almost ready to take 500$ for it. That being said it's some sort of bridgeport clone, looks to be fully manual (no power feed) and on the lighter end of vertical mills.

I'm posting the picture, and looking for either an ID (long shot) or someone willing to talk for 20-30 minutes tonight, and the same tomorrow after I meet with the sales consultant to formulate a reasonable offer for said mill. Just googling vertical mill shows that there are probably close to 50 different companies that at on point sold a Bridgeport clone.

Keys I noticed from the picture that hopefully can delineate machine before tomorrow morning.
The machine appears to bolt to the base, vs being 1 giant piece of cast iron.
The change spindle direction switch (I'm assuming) mounted on the left side of the head.
Square either vent or belt inspection port on left side top of head.
Main electrical switch mounted on back of main body.
Beveled top corners of head, similar to how acra does theirs vs rounded like bridgeport.

So again, looking for someone I can give like 50$ to PayPal, and get a short convo tonight on what to look for (I will be researching the same, so it may just be walking through what I interpret from online guides) when I go run out and condition wise.

And then someone I can call and get an honest opinion on whatever brand mill this ends up being. Obviously I will post on here once I find out what it is, I just dont want someone to snipe this from me while I'm waiting for forum responses (and hence the willingness to pay for the information that is freely available on here).

Here's our one and only pic.

Mebfab · May 22, 2019

One shot oiler, been heavily repainted. Probably a variable speed head. (not a step pulley). Has a riser block. Builders tag on the column. Looks just like the machine a ran for years. Standard taiwan clone. Worth what you are willing to pay. If you cant put power to it, worth less. CHeck ways for wear, gouges, etc. Spindle turn freely? Make sure its not in back gear so its easy to check. DOnt change the rpm if variable speed unless its running as bad for belts.

You are not going to learn any secrets over the phone.

Mebfab · May 22, 2019

Scrap is bringing a nickel a pound. Guessing 3500 lbs. Offer him $500. See what happens. If it runs at all its worth at least that.

Jeffrey Caldwell · May 22, 2019

Could it be an actual Lagun ftv-2? Closest thing I've found digging around. Which after comparing the safety first placard on a lagun you can actually figure out what the one in the pic says. This was an incredibly productive machine/fab shop that still in business, at a new location, and almost 100 percent cnc now. I'll post the remaining pics that came from the liquidation agent.

guest · May 22, 2019

Looks like a Lagun. The fwd/rev switch is a distinctive shape, the vent on the side, the oil cup location, a couple other small clues.

They must have ran out of white paint. There are one or two items not painted in those pics. :nutter:

ewlsey · May 22, 2019

I don't think it's a Lagun. On a Lagun the oil shot oiler is built into the saddle. At least that's how mine is.

That's a terrible paint job on all of those machines. They painted right over cranks and hand wheels.

guest · May 22, 2019

ewlsey said:
I don't think it's a Lagun. On a Lagun the oil shot oiler is built into the saddle. At least that's how mine is.

The Bijur on mine is the same one, and in the same place as the OP's pic. Same twin knee locks, same spindle lubrication plaque next to the plastic vent, same on/off switch, same spindle brake location. Same shape of the head as far as the bevels and profiles.

If it's not a Lagun it's a pretty good imitation. I don't see any differences between it and my (late '70's or early '80's era) FT-2.

Jeffrey Caldwell · May 22, 2019

So from reading I want it to be a lagun because apparently they are just a little big bigger than a bridgeport. Slightly larger than same era table, slightly heavier, ect, but apparently feel like doo doo in terms of quality/feel of the parts you actually touch. That said I've seen EVERY thing on this mill in the same spot, same look in some iteration of an ftv-2 or ftv-2s, but again, now I'm using the internet for confirmation instead of objectively, which is not what the internet is for. That being said, say this is a just a gem of a lagun, nice and tight, good clean ways ect, what am I looking at?
I definitely am a giant cheap skate, but I pay for quality (except when I bought my truck, I paid for crap, thanks ford), This will be my first mill, and I claim to be no where near a machinist, or even a metal worker, but let's get that carriage, we can train the horse later. I'm looking at 500 just for a good stand up drill press, another what 100-200 for a good vise, or 300 for a tiny cross slide. Moral here is I'm around 800-1000 and havent gotten anywhere near the capabilities of this machine, just the ability to semi accurately drill semi round holes. Under power and running with minimal wear and my brain says 2 grand would be a heck yea I got a good deal. Now I doubt I'm going to see this under power, but I can check everything but bearings and varispeed without power correct? So what under 1000 and be happy? Or does not under power really drag it down to just about scrap price so between 3 and 500?

Check runout on spindle by applying sideways pressure to collet/spindle. Chuck up or mount indicator on head and move one end of x to other, verifying she stays within what? A thou?
I've got a straight edge that's carried within a though over its length, set it up crossing the slot on the x and do the same (spin 180 and try again if I get a slow up or down taper just to verify it's not 1 thou in my straight edge). Indicator on y ways touching bottom of x table, verify no crazy slop in middle of table that would be a problem under power chatter wise.
Power feeds can be checked and rotated without power correct? I'm assuming yes, so just make sure they engage and move (albeit slowly) while turning apindle?

Comment above make sure it's not in back gear so you can freely spin spindle, I'm assuming that's high range? Tracking not to adjust variable speed while not spinning.

Thanks again guys, this forum is going to cost me lots of money.

CarbideBob · May 22, 2019

Home shop machinists should not be here.

bmikkalson · May 23, 2019

CarbideBob said:
Home shop machinists should not be here.

Feel better about your self?

HWElecRepair · May 23, 2019

Just be ready that Laguns go for more and Lagun is very proud of their parts when you call for quotes if it needs repairs.

Jon
H&W Machine Repair

awake · May 23, 2019

CarbideBob said:
Home shop machinists should not be here.

I hear you ... but lots of us have been part of the forum for many, many years, respecting the spirit of the forum and only discussing professional grade machines. Once in a while we even manage to offer something useful.

I'd say that mill is appropriate for this forum, especially if it is a Lagun.

For the OP, if it is a Lagun, and it is in running condition, without severe wear, and you can get it for less than $1000, do it. If you can get it for $500, even better!

DDoug · May 23, 2019

Jeffrey Caldwell said:
This was an incredibly productive machine/fab shop that still in business, at a new location, and almost 100 percent cnc now.

What bearing does this have on the condition of said machine ?

Jeffrey Caldwell · May 23, 2019

digger doug said:
What bearing does this have on the condition of said machine ?

This was more of an indication that I didnt think this was a low quality chineesium or Taiwan clone/knockoff of a Bridgeport. Call it wishful thinking if you will.

As for parts I have read this in several places. What I am finding kinda funny in my short but furious research is the bridgeport name seems to demand a premium in initial sale (ie the Bridgeport will command a higher price if 2 similar machines are being sold from a factory) but those who know what they have with a lagun are quiet proud of them, and priced accordingly (with 1 being offered at 2500 and most being 4-6k on Ebay at the moment).

I understand I am a home shop hobbyist. I don't even claim to be a home shop machinist. But I came into this thread with the willingness to pay, and the open mindedness and desire to soak every bit of information up. Not here to troll or waste time, and best believe every peice of information I get, beit a short couplevsentances, is paired with hours of research and greatly appreciated. Not here to start a fight or make anyone mad. Again I appreciate any an all input on this matter.

ripperj · May 23, 2019

Keep the home shop out of the conversation, focus on the mill. Looks like it could be a good deal, definitely worth a look

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Spinit · May 23, 2019

Jeffrey Caldwell said:
Odd title I know. Long story short I'm going to a warehouse that's being liquidated tomorrow, old fab shop. Theres a couple lathes including a monarch apparently, and a bunch of other stuff. Theres an unknown vertical mill, which I have posted the one and only picture of. They have until the beginning of next week to clear it out, and sounds like they are ready to take any offer other than scrap. The guy on the phone (from the liquidation company in grand rapids) sounded like he was almost ready to take 500$ for it. That being said it's some sort of bridgeport clone, looks to be fully manual (no power feed) and on the lighter end of vertical mills.

I'm posting the picture, and looking for either an ID (long shot) or someone willing to talk for 20-30 minutes tonight, and the same tomorrow after I meet with the sales consultant to formulate a reasonable offer for said mill. Just googling vertical mill shows that there are probably close to 50 different companies that at on point sold a Bridgeport clone.

Keys I noticed from the picture that hopefully can delineate machine before tomorrow morning.
The machine appears to bolt to the base, vs being 1 giant piece of cast iron.
The change spindle direction switch (I'm assuming) mounted on the left side of the head.
Square either vent or belt inspection port on left side top of head.
Main electrical switch mounted on back of main body.
Beveled top corners of head, similar to how acra does theirs vs rounded like bridgeport.

So again, looking for someone I can give like 50$ to PayPal, and get a short convo tonight on what to look for (I will be researching the same, so it may just be walking through what I interpret from online guides) when I go run out and condition wise.

And then someone I can call and get an honest opinion on whatever brand mill this ends up being. Obviously I will post on here once I find out what it is, I just dont want someone to snipe this from me while I'm waiting for forum responses (and hence the willingness to pay for the information that is freely available on here).

Here's our one and only pic.
View attachment 257053

Nice looking machine. For $500.00 and a little care it offers a good value as far as these machines go.

Spinit · May 23, 2019

awake said:
I hear you ... but lots of us have been part of the forum for many, many years, respecting the spirit of the forum and only discussing professional grade machines. Once in a while we even manage to offer something useful.

I'd say that mill is appropriate for this forum, especially if it is a Lagun.

For the OP, if it is a Lagun, and it is in running condition, without severe wear, and you can get it for less than $1000, do it. If you can get it for $500, even better!

This fellow is up front asking for help. His topic could be in another section yet this is nothing to send someone packing about.

9100 · May 23, 2019

Machinery discussion guidelines-

Note I said "home shop grade" Larger and/or higher quality Asian machines that might be used in manufacturing or job shop setting are ok to discuss.

Regardless of the maker, this machine is definitely in the class that someone who makes chips for money could use. The only objection I have to hobbyists is that they often dumb questions that have been settled for decades, but we all started somewhere.

Bill

HuFlungDung · May 23, 2019

Jeffrey Caldwell said:
So from reading I want it to be a lagun because apparently they are just a little big bigger than a bridgeport. Slightly larger than same era table, slightly heavier, ect, but apparently feel like doo doo in terms of quality/feel of the parts you actually touch. That said I've seen EVERY thing on this mill in the same spot, same look in some iteration of an ftv-2 or ftv-2s, but again, now I'm using the internet for confirmation instead of objectively, which is not what the internet is for. That being said, say this is a just a gem of a lagun, nice and tight, good clean ways ect, what am I looking at?
I definitely am a giant cheap skate, but I pay for quality (except when I bought my truck, I paid for crap, thanks ford), This will be my first mill, and I claim to be no where near a machinist, or even a metal worker, but let's get that carriage, we can train the horse later. I'm looking at 500 just for a good stand up drill press, another what 100-200 for a good vise, or 300 for a tiny cross slide. Moral here is I'm around 800-1000 and havent gotten anywhere near the capabilities of this machine, just the ability to semi accurately drill semi round holes. Under power and running with minimal wear and my brain says 2 grand would be a heck yea I got a good deal. Now I doubt I'm going to see this under power, but I can check everything but bearings and varispeed without power correct? So what under 1000 and be happy? Or does not under power really drag it down to just about scrap price so between 3 and 500?

Check runout on spindle by applying sideways pressure to collet/spindle. Chuck up or mount indicator on head and move one end of x to other, verifying she stays within what? A thou?
I've got a straight edge that's carried within a though over its length, set it up crossing the slot on the x and do the same (spin 180 and try again if I get a slow up or down taper just to verify it's not 1 thou in my straight edge). Indicator on y ways touching bottom of x table, verify no crazy slop in middle of table that would be a problem under power chatter wise.
Power feeds can be checked and rotated without power correct? I'm assuming yes, so just make sure they engage and move (albeit slowly) while turning apindle?

Comment above make sure it's not in back gear so you can freely spin spindle, I'm assuming that's high range? Tracking not to adjust variable speed while not spinning.

Thanks again guys, this forum is going to cost me lots of money.

Don't buy it if you're a cheapskate. Every little thing costs time and money to fix, and $1000 is nothing any more. It might be a fine machine (potentially) but it might need a couple of thousand to fix up something. That would still be a good deal for someone who is actually going to use the mill as a mill.

Joe Miranda · May 23, 2019

I think it looks good for $500. If you can't hear it run I would not give them more for it. If you can hear it run and it sounds decent in high gear then it's whatever you're inclined to pay.

I love the paint job - it tends to "tighten" everything up that way.

Subject matter expert in vertical mill machines needed, will pay for phone call

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