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  1. #61
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    BIG difference between working (or retired) machinists, and idiots—some overlap there, admittedly, but the pure idiots are a waste of bandwidth, never mind the added click count.

    I have often thought the restrictions on mentioning certain "hobby class" machine tools might need revisiting. Would you call a guy with a basement operation who manufactured full-automation conversions for Star and Phelps reloading machines using over a dozen dedicated Atlas lathes and mills a hobbyist? Not in my book—he had a high manufacturing efficiency, especially considering footprint and capacity utilization. Also he had a small foundry and cast his own parts. That to me is a professional operation.

    I once built a double-ended boring machine based on an Atlas lathe bed (pic attached). By the most conservative estimate I can make, over its 30+ year lifetime in our plant its output earned well over a million dollars. Its job (machining magnesium castings) involved relatively low cutting forces, but does that—or its nameplate—make it a toy? Again, not in my book.

    By any objective manufacturing standards, a 9" South Bend is closer to a toy than what is available today through certain hobbyist-targeted catalogs, but it gets a pass on PM. Somebody posted here that 20 x 60 lathes from presumably unmentionable sources are now available. Obviously at some point we will have to acknowledge those as viable manufacturing equipment.

    As to classifying the individual poster, an experienced machinist might well resort to a PM forum to learn about, say, a new tool, or an unusual process. But threads like "What lathe and mill do I need to manufacture a better Diesel truck engine?" are time-wasting crank-yankers and should be immediately and mercilessly locked.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.-ist-op-homemade-boring-machine.jpg  

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    @Oldwrench your comparison of SB 9s to today’s machines is a good one.

    In a parallel vein, amateurs who race vintage motorcycles are doing the same thing as amateur class racers in modern bikes, the only difference is the equipment. No one would suggest that the vintage folks are not racers simply because their machinery has been outclassed


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  4. #63
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    All I can say is beginner machinists in the internet age have it a lot easier than anyone who started machining in the pre internet days, regardless of some people on PM kicking them in the nuts. I was trained by a guy who just returned to the company after a year in jail and he was mad at the world. Trying to learn off that guy was a chore, but it was his way or the highway. There weren't any machinists forums or You Tube in 1979. Where I come from the new trainee was everyone's whipping boy, the grief they catch on PM is nothing compared to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    All I can say is beginner machinists in the internet age have it a lot easier than anyone who started machining in the pre internet days, regardless of some people on PM kicking them in the nuts. I was trained by a guy who just returned to the company after a year in jail and he was mad at the world. Trying to learn off that guy was a chore, but it was his way or the highway. There weren't any machinists forums or You Tube in 1979. Where I come from the new trainee was everyone's whipping boy, the grief they catch on PM is nothing compared to that.
    True! I started in '93, and even though I had AOL, it was dial up and sometimes you had to wait and keep trying to get signed in. I surely wasn't looking at machining sites (of any kind, hobby or otherwise). I took my lumps learning in the shop, and when you screwed up you got a royal ass chewing and you just had to take it. At least here if you don't like what someone is saying you can ignore them, or not read their posts.

    But that is today's world now I suppose... I just saw an article earlier about someone having an "emotional support COW" (yes a cow!!)

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    Here you go, a guy wants us to do his homework:

    Help with my project for university

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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    But that is today's world now I suppose... I just saw an article earlier about someone having an "emotional support COW" (yes a cow!!)
    You have to be kidding. I used to live next to a cow pasture, all those things do is pee a gallon at a time, pass gas and poop a dozen times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    The key for most beginners to get along just fine is not to ask stupid questions and not to get your hackles up if someone tells you what you're doing is a bad idea.
    Maybe this should apply to experienced members also...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Here you go, a guy wants us to do his homework:

    Help with my project for university
    This is the sort of thing that inspired this post. Just stuff it into a subforum and let those who care to help (or excoriate) him. The rest of us would never have to see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Here you go, a guy wants us to do his homework:

    Help with my project for university
    You are absolutely on point. This entire thread is mis-labeled. The discussion should not be about hobbyists, amateurs and professionals. It should be about lazy and stupid illiterates. Everyone else is welcome.

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    Yes, but he has gotten a bunch of sympathetic and helpful replies, including from one of our most avid ass-reamers.

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    Is sorta miss my Atl*s 6 inch, taught me patience.



    I don't mind discussion of crap machines, but it isn't my forum, so my opinion doesn't really count


    I think the kid in the above posting is ok, but it kind of depends on how he responds. If it looks like he is trying to learn, then it is ok in my book

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    This is the sort of thing that inspired this post. Just stuff it into a subforum and let those who care to help (or excoriate) him. The rest of us would never have to see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    You are absolutely on point. This entire thread is mis-labeled. The discussion should not be about hobbyists, amateurs and professionals. It should be about lazy and stupid illiterates. Everyone else is welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Here you go, a guy wants us to do his homework:

    Help with my project for university
    How is doing someone's homework for them helping? I guess this is the sign of the times. A while back I remember a friend of mine who attended an open house at her kids school. I think this was at a Junior High, they had some of the kids projects on display. She said it was really sad how bad some of them were and you could tell they were the ones the kids did all by themselves. I was like, "what did you say?"

    In the cause of the guy here why isn't he spending hours watching You Tube videos for ideas?

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    How is watching youtube videos better than asking for help from a bunch of experienced machinists?

    Ideally he'd find a local machinist who'd help him out - how likely is that to happen?

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  21. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    How is watching youtube videos better than asking for help from a bunch of experienced machinists?

    Ideally he'd find a local machinist who'd help him out - how likely is that to happen?
    At least watching You Tube he is making a commitment to investing hours and hours of his time instead of getting help with his research here to take short cuts.

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    Things as they are are fine with me in terms of forum count. If I were to tweak the number to make things even finer, I'd reduce it rather than expand it. I see no virtue in multiplying the already large number of forums every time someone gets an idea for improving things. I already know how to keep track of the dead mates that mattered to me, I know what the serial numbers of my machines are, a repository of machine tags would do nothing for me, I know what companies I do and do not want to do business with, I am not seeking a list of educational materials, I manage OK without a skills exchange, thankfully I do not feel the need for a job openings list, and I would probably run screaming from a live discussion forum. When it comes to the occasional "hobbyist" posts that are the subject of the present thread, it seems pretty simple and quick to determine when to hit the ignore button, and to send a like Don's way when he vaporizes the worst of them.

    -Marty-
    Last edited by Marty Feldman; 01-08-2020 at 10:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I don't mind discussion of crap machines, but it isn't my forum, so my opinion doesn't really count
    Honestly!! I don't ming this specific thing that much either. It can be really entertaining. I've had to work with junk equipment a lot, and had to make good parts on it. BUT it's the asshats that argue and refuse to admit it ain't working because of junk equipment. Or the ones that go on and on about un-identified equipment, and you're trying to help, only to find out that he's been spit shining a turd for 10 years, and the obsession has him delusional about it, that I can't abide. So, I agree, it's just easier all around to eliminate the beginning of the conversation.


    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    You have to be kidding. I used to live next to a cow pasture, all those things do is pee a gallon at a time, pass gas and poop a dozen times a day.
    .
    You forgot the most important part of cows. They turn grass (makes a lousy salad, no matter how hard-core a vegan you are!) in to STEAK! Yum!

    And their used grass helps grow more grass!

  25. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    Maybe this should apply to experienced members also...
    It should apply to everyone.

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    Hi
    I don't think there can be a discussion around the noise that amateurs bring to the forum without discussing OT posts.
    I know that OT posts are allowed but should they be???

    Perhaps there should be an OT forum to reduce the clutter in the general forum.

    The thing that actually annoys me the most is that often about 2-3 pages into a topic, discussion wanders off into the weeds and sometimes degenerates to personality disputes. Pure noise.



    Dazz

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  28. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    Hi
    I don't think there can be a discussion around the noise that amateurs bring to the forum without discussing OT posts.
    I know that OT posts are allowed but should they be???

    Perhaps there should be an OT forum to reduce the clutter in the general forum.

    The thing that actually annoys me the most is that often about 2-3 pages into a topic, discussion wanders off into the weeds and sometimes degenerates to personality disputes. Pure noise.



    Dazz

    You do realize that this thread is about hobby machinists and crap machines and you've wandered off into off topic posts, don't you?


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