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  1. #141
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    I agree. If anything needs to be changed, it is some people's attitude. Professionalism carries with it standards of behavior. Robert's Rules of Order, the rules of formal debate, and so on, have good reasons for their existence. A lot of the insults and name calling here should have never happened. When I was 13 my father bought me a 9" Logan lathe and from there I was mostly on my own to figure things out for myself. A little coaching would have gone a long way.

    Bill

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  3. #142
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    We all need to remember that nobody is as smart as everybody. I just wish they could read the rules!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    We all need to remember that nobody is as smart as everybody. I just wish they could read the rules!
    Maybe a test to see if they have read the rules and understand them. :-)
    ...lewie...

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    Still don't shove it in and break the handle off. We all started off pretty green.
    Some of us are still green on stuff we never did...

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  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewie View Post
    Maybe a test to see if they have read the rules and understand them. :-)
    ...lewie...
    You could do that. Have a couple of questions in the sign up process that have answers in the rule stickies.

    Bill

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    Perhaps a solid metal mouse and some IT so that any dumb question or answer gives that person a good jolt.
    And anyone who gets jolted off his/her chair three times goes on everyone's ignore list. 20,000 volts at 2.5 amp should do .
    *But I have no problem with the few dumb Q&A

    OT: 6" plus of snow so any kid with a shovel could have made 100 bucks+ today... where are all the kids? Seems you never see any in the last few years.

    Yes I hand shoveled mine and my neighbor's walk and driveway just for the exercise..got to get in shape for my fishing trip soon.I still have a pull stat Ski Doo Tundra so need to be able to get it started.

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    I’ve gotten plenty of polite help here. If a person doesn’t like the question, it’s not a requirement that they reply.

    I have a sign in my aircraft hangar:

    “The Titanic was built by professionals, the Ark was built by amateurs”.

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  12. #148
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    I dunno if it's been mentioned (too much crap to read though )

    But we're practical guys, we find technical solutions (aka baling engineers out of the shit)

    So what about an algorithm, set up so certain words trigger the post to be referred back to the poster along with the rules on posting ……..with a nice polite note explaining why it's come back, and they would be welcome if they made certain changes.

    Not 100% effective (find me what is) ….but it would thin out most of the bad posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You never went through that stage in life when you thought you new it all and did not listen?
    Pot calling the kettle black or is it not in your life experience?
    I've been a jerk more than once and wrong more than that so I cut some slack to others even if it seems crazy.
    Maybe God made you perfect, not me, I am full of so many flaws.
    Bob
    I was born knowing how to run and program CNC mills...not lathes though, we didn't pay for that upgrade.


    Seriously though, machining is my hobby, I just get a fat check at the end of the week for showing up

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    Quote Originally Posted by SexieWASD View Post
    [click the link for quote]
    Well said!

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    I'm a hobbyist and I do understand the pros annoyance with hobbyist. But you have to understand that the info and advice available on this forum is sooo much better than any other website. I rarely visit the hobby forums because of this.

    I mostly read posts as I have nothing to contribute, but I do ask for help every once in a while and always get really good advice. Knock on wood everyone has been super nice to me. So thanks! I appreciate ya'll tolerating me!

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    Having a thread for hobbyists/amateurs/beginners/apprentices looking for help would be a good thing.

    I asked for help with a rolator/walker along with pictures of the problem. The original 'professional' repair had failed. I mentioned my 'Americas favourite lathe' and MOM(miniature oriental mill) to make clear what equipment I had available(a professional idea). After a couple of suggestions the post was locked. After finishing the repair I put up a fresh post with pictures. Someone commented about being 'locked out.' Mr. Heaton came to my defence as it was a 'worthy project.' I contacted him directly and he explained the rules, which I fully understand.
    I was here for help on the problem, not on the machines(I am a fitter and turner). I thought I would get better help than on the hobby sites.
    Some do this site and the profession a disservice when they start abusing posters. How do they treat their staff and customers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post

    As I noted in my earlier post, to infer that the type of machine determines their status means that someone making crap in their garage on a 15” Leblond is a professional.
    As you can see from my post count and status on this forum I am very new to this site as well to machining. I am (at this point in my life) one of these idiots with a 15" leblond in my garage (but I am no Pro). I have been guilty of asking a dumb question on here in my first 15 posts but those dumb questions are me trying to get an answer to a question when I really don't know what I am asking. I would like to think that everyone started somewhere, made the same mistakes us newbies make, asked the same stupid questions, but they were probably as a apprentice and had a master machinist teaching them. For most of us this forum is our teacher. I will definitely try and research more and do what I can to stop the dumb questions.

    I totally agree that the newbies should have a place to go and ask a question without filling up the general section, and as long as the pros keep answering these questions (greatly appreciated) in the general section they will be continually asked. I think that is the appeal to this forum; no matter what problem you are running into or the mistake you are making, someone on here has an answer or at least a source for putting you in the right direction.

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    Default A suggestion for dealing with hobby machinist posts

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoore2784 View Post
    As you can see from my post count and status on this forum I am very new to this site as well to machining. I am (at this point in my life) one of these idiots with a 15" leblond in my garage (but I am no Pro). I have been guilty of asking a dumb question on here in my first 15 posts but those dumb questions are me trying to get an answer to a question when I really don't know what I am asking. I would like to think that everyone started somewhere, made the same mistakes us newbies make, asked the same stupid questions, but they were probably as a apprentice and had a master machinist teaching them. For most of us this forum is our teacher. I will definitely try and research more and do what I can to stop the dumb questions.

    I totally agree that the newbies should have a place to go and ask a question without filling up the general section, and as long as the pros keep answering these questions (greatly appreciated) in the general section they will be continually asked. I think that is the appeal to this forum; no matter what problem you are running into or the mistake you are making, someone on here has an answer or at least a source for putting you in the right direction.
    I’m also an amateur, meaning I don’t get paid to machine metal.

    I have a South Bend 10K which has been referred to on PM as a hobby-grade. Is it? I don’t know. Would it make a difference if I used it to turn out commissioned work?

    If that were the case the argument would shift to the individual and away from their equipment.

    If I make watches for a living using a Sherline mill then I am a professional.

    I was not suggesting that anyone was being any idiot, or that someone with a ‘professional’ level machine and less than similar skills was somehow idiotic.

    What I was trying to do was poke a hole in the early argument that machinery grade would be a way to separate the pros from the hobbyists.

    I actually think this entire thread has been useful in exposing the various facets of the issues.

    My issue has been (and still is to a degree) that a dumb question by someone who quite literally does not know enough to ask the right question (whatever that is...) is met with derision and scorn.

    Imagine if you went to a supplier of specialty widgets and describing your need but not describing it using the correct nomenclature. Now imagine if they basically shunned you for not know what you were talking about. Over time that retailer would be known for dismissing the common customer their trade would consist of those that know the ‘code’.

    There are some folks here who are very helpful and I’ve been grateful for their support. Others however seem to go out of their way to shame to hapless newcomer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    There are guys on here that really like to rip up the hobby guys...I too have been guilty but rarely and only when the topic was so stupid a good ol hard time was the only thing worth giving.

    Cutting metal (or whatever) is cutting metal...(or whatever). Paycheck or no paycheck, brand new Bridgeport with CNC retro or auction find, needs some work Bridgeport. I never really understood the rift.

    And to the "keeping it professional only" guys, seriously the bulk of the posts on here are from the same 1 or 200 guys on a weekly basis. Face it, there's a lot more home gamers out there then us. Personally I don't have the room for real machines, I've contemplated getting a bench top mill and a small lathe from harbor freight...because I'm a professional and will definitely probably break it.

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  23. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    ...I don't have the room for real machines, I've contemplated getting a bench top mill and a small lathe from harbor freight...
    This is pretty much verbatim what one hears several times per week on the hobby sites. Seems like it is more important for total newbies to immediately purchase some cheap imported trappings of what they think a machinist should have, something that requires no more effort or learning on their part than to simply make one phone call and plunk down a credit card, than to seek out quality that will last. And it is the best reason to ban these machines from this site.

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    Default A suggestion for dealing with hobby machinist posts

    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    This is pretty much verbatim what one hears several times per week on the hobby sites. Seems like it is more important for total newbies to immediately purchase some cheap imported trappings of what they think a machinist should have, something that requires no more effort or learning on their part than to simply make one phone call and plunk down a credit card, than to seek out quality that will last. And it is the best reason to ban these machines from this site.
    I think this is a gross generalization.

    Lumping all newbies into one camp of credit card happy wannabes doesn’t help the discussion.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  27. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
    I’m also an amateur, meaning I don’t get paid to machine metal.

    I have a South Bend 10K which has been referred to on PM as a hobby-grade. Is it? I don’t know. Would it make a difference if I used it to turn out commissioned work?

    If that were the case the argument would shift to the individual and away from their equipment.

    If I make watches for a living using a Sherline mill then I am a professional.

    I was not suggesting that anyone was being any idiot, or that someone with a ‘professional’ level machine and less than similar skills was somehow idiotic.

    What I was trying to do was poke a hole in the early argument that machinery grade would be a way to separate the pros from the hobbyists.

    I actually think this entire thread has been useful in exposing the various facets of the issues.

    My issue has been (and still is to a degree) that a dumb question by someone who quite literally does not know enough to ask the right question (whatever that is...) is met with derision and scorn.

    Imagine if you went to a supplier of specialty widgets and describing your need but not describing it using the correct nomenclature. Now imagine if they basically shunned you for not know what you were talking about. Over time that retailer would be known for dismissing the common customer their trade would consist of those that know the ‘code’.

    There are some folks here who are very helpful and I’ve been grateful for their support. Others however seem to go out of their way to shame to hapless newcomer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In the end it devolves to the statement that I can't define pornography but I know it when I see it.

    I have run a 10K all I ever want to, have thousands of hours over 40 years on a 14 1/2" South Bend and a lot of time in the last 20 on a Sheldon R15. If you ran each of them for a while, no one would have to explain the difference. The 10K was designed to a price with nowhere near enough mass and corners cut in the design. I was consulting on the design of a drafting pen and making prototypes on the 10K, so that was professional use, but it didn't make it a professional machine.

    The 14 1/2" South Bend was also made to a price but it is solid and accurate enough to make a fair living and a lot of people have done so.

    The Sheldon is twice the weight and many times the price of the South Bend, a medium duty professional's machine.

    If you look at some of the work Ray Behner has done on his Sheldon, he probably could do much of the same work on a 10K, but only because a master machinist can do a lot of compensation for the machine's shortcomings.

    Bill

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  29. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    This is pretty much verbatim what one hears several times per week on the hobby sites. Seems like it is more important for total newbies to immediately purchase some cheap imported trappings of what they think a machinist should have, something that requires no more effort or learning on their part than to simply make one phone call and plunk down a credit card, than to seek out quality that will last. And it is the best reason to ban these machines from this site.
    Well...for one I am serious, it'd be nice to have some cheap and dirty machines in my basement to fiddle fuck with...if I need to make anything substantial I have lathes, bridgeports, a hass vm2, surface grinders, a large tig machine, and mits wire edm.

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    @9100 I wasn’t suggesting that the the 10K is a professional or production level machine.
    Only that using a machine as the criterion is not a useful measure.


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