Tapered-shank drill bits in a tailstock - stupid question time - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    "a couple of cheap $40-for-five flea-bay MT-shank drills"

    I see you getting really good at sharpening those POS's, or getting really frustrated. I actually had a spiral flute drill "un-spiral" once - boss liked cheap.
    Since you'll be sharpening anyway, look for used drills of decent parentage.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    "a couple of cheap $40-for-five flea-bay MT-shank drills"

    I see you getting really good at sharpening those POS's, or getting really frustrated. I actually had a spiral flute drill "un-spiral" once - boss liked cheap.
    Since you'll be sharpening anyway, look for used drills of decent parentage.
    Man, ain't THAT the case!

    You know folks have taken to growing beards or wearing masks, world-wide, when China had to divert scrap mystery-metal from making razor-blades into Morse-taper drill-shaped-objects!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    "a couple of cheap $40-for-five flea-bay MT-shank drills"

    I see you getting really good at sharpening those POS's, or getting really frustrated. I actually had a spiral flute drill "un-spiral" once - boss liked cheap.
    Since you'll be sharpening anyway, look for used drills of decent parentage.
    Yeah, I thought twice after posting that. I'll just buy something new and be done with it. They're not too terrible. Cheaper than most insert holders anyhow. Working in my shop vs working on it and all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Sparky View Post
    Yeah, I thought twice after posting that. I'll just buy something new and be done with it. They're not too terrible. Cheaper than most insert holders anyhow. Working in my shop vs working on it and all that.
    Well "Two things";

    - A GOOD drill, shank regardless, with a GOOD grind will make a short ton of decent holes, not just one or a "few" ..so long as:

    - NOT run "in the dry". Use coolant, not just a brushed-on oil. GRAVITY can work if no pump.

    - properly ground at the BEGINNING. Well-ground not abused LASTS a longish time.

    NEVER used as if it were a "reamer" to "open up" a hole. Just DON'T!

    If you can't clear a boring bar in one go, make a "D" reamer to open it up.

    They are cheap, fast, and easy to make as well as semi-expendable. Where "semi" means one can make them over many times, same length of steel before "all used up".

    Given the "D" reamer, OR a "balanced" boring bar or three to rough with, OR an inserted carbide drill to rough with? You do NOT need a lot of sizes in your larger drills to get starter holes banged-in. How much power do you have, anyway?

    A 14" X 30" HBX-360-BC can push 7 HP up against a #5 MT "capstan" TS that even has a power feed option for its fast-acting rack & pinion ram.

    Even so, the Alzmetall DP, also with 7 HP and #5 MT still makes holes faster. Holes are all it does, but holes is WHAT it does.

    How to GET good drills? Buy the legendary makers. Periodically send a box of them off for professional grind to a shop that runs Oliver of Adrian or the few other makers of drill grinding goods that actually do WTF they need to do for a proper and enduring grind. They get it right. First time, every time, ALL the time. NO relationship to a "drill doctor" or other "let's pretend" drill grinder's half-vast control of tip geometry.

    If you want a "set" in the larger sizes? Grab a 2" depth, no less, "annular" cutters. Carbide tipped, even. Those are NOT "just" for mag drills:

    Hougen Annular Cutters for Mag Drills, Sheet Metal, Machining and Industrial Applications

    The larger the conventional helical twist-drill, the thicker the stock needs to be to avoid NASTY raggedayassedness on breakout. ELSE one is using-up a LOT of sacrificial backing material. Annulars, by contrast, can do anything from thin sheet metal clear up to their cavity depth in seriously solidist of solids and need less power to do it. They need not turn ALL of the waste into chips. Just trepan a hollow cylinder, leaving the waste as a core.
    Last edited by thermite; 05-11-2021 at 11:56 AM.

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  7. #25
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    I have a mix of import black oxide bought new and old ones I have picked up at estate sales and from people getting out. The older ones with good parentage will take a lot more before the edge fails. Both are usable, I just have to sharpen the black oxide ones more often.
    Since I am not "production" coolant really isn't an option. I've had really good results with the stick wax lubes - castrol makes one. Yes, you have to back out and re-apply say ever 1 1/2" or so, but the stuff sticks better than cutting oil. I got introduced to it when I was in the aircraft industry.
    And I drill with the tailstock. SB actually made a lever feed conversion for tailstock drilling. Don't try to hog with a 1" drill using the tailstock, but SB talks about drilling with the TS in HTRAL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    Since I am not "production" coolant really isn't an option.
    It just isn't that hard. Not looking at 300 PSIG high pressure coolant here. You can rig a line and pulley, fill a container at a convenient level, hoist it up to the overhead.

    Then.. when ready to push a tool or drill? Open a petcock, and gravity feed.
    No $90 pump required.

    I'm lazy. I bought some 120/240 1-P pumps. But my "juice" tank recovery & recycle pumps are on a wheeled rack. Now one charge and one "system" can be used with any of several machines instead of leaving a separate charge IN each seldom-used machine's sump to go shiddy & stinky - as they arrived!

    Lots of guys have done this. I just copied "mostly" one I saw written-up in an online thread. Don't even remember if it was PM or some other forum.

    I don't work shiney-wood nor plastic with Carbides.

    Drill, mill, or turn steel & the Bronzes with HSS? You NEED cutting fluid or coolant.

    Simple enuf?

    After all, "non production" also means you don't need very much OF it, nor very often.

    One of the goals is simply to keep both hands free to do the work and not have to juggle about to MESS with sticks or brushes.

    Industry doesn't use it just to make a mess. They use to do better work in less time with longer tool life so as to bank more money and waste less.

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  11. #27
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    Dont forget termite only reads books, never worked in the business, His most important goal is to reach 20000 post "again"!
    The termite is a 300 lb blob of spoiled hamburger sitting in front of a computer naked!

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    it goes against the toolpost or the ways with an extension.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 0-282.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    it goes against the toolpost or the ways with an extension.
    Well done!

    Lots of similar ways to fab torque-control goods quickly and at low cost. They do not have to look like "factory" to get the job done.

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    Having worked mostly with TS tapers in less than perfect condition on our tool-room lathes (the ones without key'd tapers), I prefer to only drill up to 5/8," unless I'm doing it in steps so there's not a lot of material coming off. For me, a 1/2"-5/8" pilot hole is enough to follow up with a boring bar or two. Hogging out a 1" hole with a single drill is faster, but only if you have a well-set taper and a lathe with enough guts to drive the cut.

    Ideally though, if there's any concern of the drill spinning, I mount the drill in my tool-post with an AXA-MT2 holder. Doing so requires a little extra time to set-up the drill accurately, but you get the added control of the carriage and even power feed if you like.

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  17. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    Having worked mostly with TS tapers in less than perfect condition on our tool-room lathes (the ones without key'd tapers), I prefer to only drill up to 5/8," unless I'm doing it in steps so there's not a lot of material coming off. For me, a 1/2"-5/8" pilot hole is enough to follow up with a boring bar or two. Hogging out a 1" hole with a single drill is faster, but only if you have a well-set taper and a lathe with enough guts to drive the cut.

    Ideally though, if there's any concern of the drill spinning, I mount the drill in my tool-post with an AXA-MT2 holder. Doing so requires a little extra time to set-up the drill accurately, but you get the added control of the carriage and even power feed if you like.
    If you know in advance you will finish with a boring bar, it is just waaaay easier and faster to bang the clearance for it in over on the drillpress.

    Hole won't be "perfectly on-axis", but it won't be BAD, either, and cleans-up soon enough.

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  19. #32
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    Get a 3MT reamer and have it standing by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    Get a 3MT reamer and have it standing by.
    Russian-made 5 MT "finish" and in cheap and ignorant HCS was good enough for my worst "problem child".

    That Alzmetall had surely seen a lot of release-drift azure abuse to its 5 MT nostril, early 1950's onward! Welts raised like burn calluses on a glass blower's hands.

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    i never had much luck with reamers. maybe my quills were to high in quality (:.

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    A small selection of annular cutters with a 3MT adapter might be what I'm looking for. Low toque requirements, quick cutting speed and preservation of the cored slug for later use with no need to pilot and enlarge in increments. Just blast a big hole in a hurry and get on with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Sparky View Post
    A small selection of annular cutters with a 3MT adapter might be what I'm looking for. Low toque requirements, quick cutting speed and preservation of the cored slug for later use with no need to pilot and enlarge in increments. Just blast a big hole in a hurry and get on with it.
    Before I had budget for the 2" Hougens, then also a hellacious broad coverage set of MT classical helical-twist-drills #1 to #4 MT and adapters out the kazoo to cut down on multiple-sleeve stacking?

    I found the Alzmetall a deal on a set of only 1" depth "Milwaukee".

    Already had a bunch of OTHER stuff ...such as hole saws to 7" the valiant litle Walker-Turner had been abused half to death by .. but never got the memo it was allowed to say "cannot".

    Can't fathom it. There ain't nothing visible TO a Walker-Turner but a very average ration of decent Cast-Iron and an obviously marginal at-best vee-belt drive.

    Any other look-alike "shudda-been wood working only" drillpress dies trying. Fool Walker-Turner is too stubborn to quit. "JFDI" and sets waiting for the NEXT hole to suck steel right TF out of!

    Might have vampire DNA? Or maybe Elliot Roosevelt [1]?



    [1]
    "I hate wahh.. Eleanor hates wahh. James hates wahh. FALA hates wahh.. but my son Elliot?"

    "He just doesn't give a DAMN!"

    FDR.


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